Trayvon Martin

[kujo]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' timestamp='1332685115' post='2407876']
Kujo you fail to forget what white people have put black people through in this country. That matters my friend. That matters.
[/quote]

You're right--I [i]have [/i]"failed" to "forget" that [b]some[/b] white people did awful things to [b]some[/b] black people. I know the history, but I'm sorry--that has NOTHING to do with this case. The Irish, the Italian, the Germans, the JAPANESE, and others, were all subjected to torture and racism. Sure, African-Americans had it worse, but at what point do today's actions stand alone? And isn't there some sort of racism involved in giving excuses to people whose distant relatives may or may not have been the victims of slavery? Call me crazy, but I think black people are capable of doing every single thing that I am capable of, and don't need any excuses for their failures. No one gives me any excuses...so why should I give them any?

Edited March 25, 2012 by kujo

[Guest]

Criminal history such as what ? Underage drinking ? I did that. Theft ? I did that. What are we talking about. We know Martin had no felonies.

[Adrestia]

[quote name='kujo' timestamp='1332684986' post='2407874']
The point I was making was that there will never be a day where racism, bigotry and prejudice doesn't exist. It just won't happen. We can work towards a more perfect society, but it's never going to be totally perfect.
[/quote]
So? We should still work toward a better society.
[quote name='kujo' timestamp='1332684986' post='2407874']
And by the way, that goes for black people too. Let's not pretend that there aren't THOUSANDS of racially-motivated crimes each year perpetrated by African Americans towards white, Latino and Asian people. [/quote] and also other Black people.
Those folks usually get arrested by the police. Let's not pretend that the police response isn't the real issue.

[quote name='kujo' timestamp='1332684986' post='2407874']
And how many times have you turned on the TV and seen a black or Latino comedian doing his or her "white people voice," to catcalls and great applause? How do you think that would go over if it were a white person doing the same thing towards other minorities?
[/quote]
I don't watch much TV, so I actually don't see much of that. The last time I went to a live comedy show, a white lady did an Asian voice. No one else seemed to care, but I didn't like it.

[kujo]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' timestamp='1332685524' post='2407880']
Criminal history such as what ? Underage drinking ? I did that. Theft ? I did that. What are we talking about. We know Martin had no felonies.
[/quote]

You misunderstood my statement.

I was asking if, hypothetically, Trayvon had some sort of felony charges in his background, would this whole thing have even been noticed outside of Sanford?

[Anomaly]

[quote name='Adrestia' timestamp='1332683937' post='2407863']
You must not read much from Anomaly. The posts rarely contain serious content.
[/quote]I gave you props for this succinct, but well thought out analysis.

[Adrestia]

[quote name='kujo' timestamp='1332685267' post='2407877']
A) I never said that

B) Just because a white person killed a black person doesn't mean it's a hate crime. Unless there is explicit proof that Zimmerman is racist, it's idiotic and unfair to believe otherwise



The more apt question is would anyone here care if Trayvon had a criminal history of some sort? Would we have ever heard about this story? No, because it doesn't have the necessary "juiciness." It would still have been an example of the always-evil racial profiling, but if Zimmerman's fears had been well-founded, we would never have heard jack spit!
[/quote]

My question is about the police response, not Zimmerman's motives. Zimmerman is a simple man with a hero complex. He probably would have failed the standard to carry a concealed gun in Texas.

[Guest]

The problem is it wasn't long ago in this country black people couldn't drink from the same water fountain or vote and ect ect ect. Its just reality. So ya things are still going to be sensitive. Things have got better but there are still some reaally racist people left. Doesn't mean all white people are to blame. Any one that has that attitude then floppy them.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Guest

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' timestamp='1332683330' post='2407854']
Thou shall not murder.
[/quote]

Except there is no proof of "murder" in this case.

[kujo]

[quote name='Adrestia' timestamp='1332685640' post='2407881']
So? We should still work toward a better society. [/quote]

And when did I suggest otherwise?

[quote]and also other Black people.

Those folks usually get arrested by the police. Let's not pretend that the police response isn't the real issue.[/quote]

Agreed. Again, go back and read my posts in this thread and try and find one that suggests that I don't think the police in this case eff'ed up. I'll save you the trouble--you won't find it.

[quote]I don't watch much TV, so I actually don't see much of that. The last time I went to a live comedy show, a white lady did an Asian voice. No one else seemed to care, but I didn't like it.
[/quote]

Trust me...it's sort of a trademark.

[kujo]

[quote name='Adrestia' timestamp='1332685760' post='2407884']
My question is about the police response, not Zimmerman's motives. Zimmerman is a simple man with a hero complex. He probably would have failed the standard to carry a concealed gun in Texas.
[/quote]

Again, go back and re-read my posts and try to find an example of me not saying the police did wrong here.

You can't send Zimmerman to jail because of racist cops. He wasn't a cop, and his actions, based on my legal studies--not a lawyer--fall under this protection of this dumbarse law.

[Guest]

What's murder to you cmother ?

[Adrestia]

[quote name='kujo' timestamp='1332685857' post='2407887']
And when did I suggest otherwise?

[quote name='kujo' timestamp='1332650671' post='2407727']
It smells of elderberries, but there really isn't anything that anyone can do to change that.
[/quote]
[/quote]

[Guest]

Some one needs to find some documents on wether it matters if Zimmerman started the fight. I would really like to be able to see and read that. I'm on a phone so I can't copy and paste. Although I will search.

[kujo]

[quote name='Adrestia' timestamp='1332686207' post='2407893']
[/quote]

Ok...you will not listen to reason, so I'[color=#282828]m done with you until you [/color][color=#282828]make so[/color][color=#282828]me useful additions to this discussion.[/color]

[cmotherofpirl]

The police have a witness who states that Zimmerman was on the ground screaming and that the victim was on top of him beating him.

[Adrestia]

[quote name='kujo' timestamp='1332686008' post='2407890']
Again, go back and re-read my posts and try to find an example of me not saying the police did wrong here.

You can't send Zimmerman to jail because of racist cops. He wasn't a cop, and his actions, based on my legal studies--not a lawyer--fall under this protection of this dumbarse law.
[/quote]
I believe that Zimmerman is free because of racist cops. He killed an unarmed kid and expected everything to blow over because he wasn't arrested. I'm disgusted by his casual attitude after killing a kid. (http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-25/news/os-trayvon-martin-zimmerman-friend-20120325_1_abc-news-arizona-iced-tea-joe-oliver)

[kujo]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' timestamp='1332686250' post='2407894']
Some one needs to find some documents on wether it matters if Zimmerman started the fight. I would really like to be able to see and read that. I'm on a phone so I can't copy and paste. Although I will search.
[/quote]

If you go back and read page 3 or 4, I posted the entirety of the Stand Your Ground law. It [color=#282828]makes no distinction about the origins of the danger faced by the defendant. That doesn't [/color][color=#282828]mean that the courts won't create so[/color][color=#282828]me sort of new precedent, but the law, as currently written, provides no such lit[/color][color=#282828]mus test.[/color]

[Guest]

Ok Cmother so say Zimmerman started the fight after he followed Martin. He's losing the fight. That gives him the right to pull out his gun and kill Trayvon? That's not murder to you ? What if Trayvon was your son ? You would be ok with this ?

[kujo]

[quote name='Adrestia' timestamp='1332686447' post='2407900']
I believe that Zimmerman is free because of racist cops. He killed an unarmed kid and expected everything to blow over because he wasn't arrested. I'm disgusted by his casual attitude after killing a kid. ([url="http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-25/news/os-trayvon-martin-zimmerman-friend-20120325_1_abc-news-arizona-iced-tea-joe-oliver"]http://articles.orla...-tea-joe-oliver[/url])
[/quote]

Well, if his story is correct--debatable...obviously-- then he had every reason to believe the whole thing would "blow over."

[quote name='Delivery Boy' timestamp='1332686566' post='2407902']
Ok Cmother so say Zimmerman started the fight after he followed Martin. He's losing the fight. That gives him the right to pull out his gun and kill Trayvon? That's not murder to you ?
[/quote]

In the State of Florida, no, it's not [color=#282828]murder.[/color]

[Guest]

Thank you Adrestia. I agree 110 percent with you. Its really sad.