Catholic Does Not Equal Gop

[Groo the Wanderer]

[img]http://www.calledtocommunion.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/BenedictBartholomew.jpg[/img]

Edited September 15, 2012 by Groo the Wanderer

[Nihil Obstat]

YES.

[Groo the Wanderer]

[img]http://jdfinley.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/snoopy_woodstock.jpg[/img]

[Winchester]

[quote name='FuturePriest387' timestamp='1347674236' post='2482515']
I'll give you everything but the socialized health care. He believes States have the rights to do so, but not the entire country as a whole. He also believes abortion is okay but then not, and that guns regulations are good and then not, and... Here, let's just watch the video:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IS33Hkgnls4[/media]
[/quote]
He believes the Federal government can mandate insurance companies to accept pre-existing conditions, and command the insurance companies to keep adults covered under their parent's policy.

States are not limited by the Constitution in the same way as the Federal government, but no one has the right to socialize healthcare. Even if a magical number of people gathers together, they don't obtain superpowers.

[PhuturePriest]

[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1347713428' post='2482692']
He believes the Federal government can mandate insurance companies to accept pre-existing conditions, and command the insurance companies to keep adults covered under their parent's policy.

States are not limited by the Constitution in the same way as the Federal government, but no one has the right to socialize healthcare. Even if a magical number of people gathers together, they don't obtain superpowers.
[/quote]

Winchester, I am so disappointed. Don't you know the verse "If two are gathered in my name I am there with them"?

This actually reminds me of the musical 1776 when John Adams goes "One useless man is a tragedy. Two useless men are a law firm, and three or more useless men is a congress!" I'd like to see your response to this but I'm leaving for Kansas City today and I won't be back until tomorrow in the afternoon. Make sure it's a good one!

[Roamin Catholic]

I thought we should have yet another political debate at the top of this forum since we don't have enough already.

[havok579257]

[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1347713428' post='2482692']
He believes the Federal government can mandate insurance companies to accept pre-existing conditions, and command the insurance companies to keep adults covered under their parent's policy.

States are not limited by the Constitution in the same way as the Federal government, but no one has the right to socialize healthcare. Even if a magical number of people gathers together, they don't obtain superpowers.
[/quote]


just a question and this has nothing to do with romney but do you think its moral for insurance companies to deny people coverage with pre-existing condition?

[Roamin Catholic]

[quote name='havok579257' timestamp='1351832742' post='2502734']


just a question and this has nothing to do with romney but do you think its moral for insurance companies to deny people coverage with pre-existing condition?
[/quote]

Insurance companies are in the business of making money. Its all based on risk, if you are a high risk, they should have the right to deny you coverage or offer you a super super high premium. Whats next? Requiring life insurance companies to give out policies regardless of ones health?

[havok579257]

[quote name='Roamin_Catholic' timestamp='1351832945' post='2502738']

Insurance companies are in the business of making money. Its all based on risk, if you are a high risk, they should have the right to deny you coverage or offer you a super super high premium. Whats next? Requiring life insurance companies to give out policies regardless of ones health?
[/quote]

so you think its moral for someone who develops cancer can be denied by every single insurance company and then be unable to pay for medication and treatments that can prolong and improve quality of life?

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1346765465' post='2478241']
TU gets called a liberal in 3..2..
[/quote]
[size=5][i]PROPHESY!![/i][/size]

[havok579257]

[quote name='Roamin_Catholic' timestamp='1351832945' post='2502738']

Insurance companies are in the business of making money. Its all based on risk, if you are a high risk, they should have the right to deny you coverage or offer you a super super high premium. Whats next? Requiring life insurance companies to give out policies regardless of ones health?
[/quote]

your not even making a fair comparison because life insurance and health insurance are two completely different things. they are not relateable.

[Roamin Catholic]

[quote name='havok579257' timestamp='1351833094' post='2502740']
so you think its moral for someone who develops cancer can be denied by every single insurance company and then be unable to pay for medication and treatments that can prolong and improve quality of life?
[/quote]


So that for-profit business should have to lose money? Sounds like the government sticking its head where it doesn't belong again....Medicare and Medicaid exist for a reason. To serve the poor. Also, that sounds like poor foresight by the cancer patient to not have health insurance before getting sick.


For the record, I have always had health insurance, even when half of my monthly income paid for the premium. I did it because you never know when that illness is going to come. I shouldn't have to pay a higher premium because someone didn't care enough to protect themselves.

[havok579257]

[quote name='Roamin_Catholic' timestamp='1351833413' post='2502747']


So that for-profit business should have to lose money? Sounds like the government sticking its head where it doesn't belong again....Medicare and Medicaid exist for a reason. To serve the poor. Also, that sounds like poor foresight by the cancer patient to not have health insurance before getting sick.


For the record, I have always had health insurance, even when half of my monthly income paid for the premium. I did it because you never know when that illness is going to come. I shouldn't have to pay a higher premium because someone didn't care enough to protect themselves.
[/quote]

so basically your saying someone who develops cancer needs to go poor to be properly treated for their cancer? so if you develop cancer then your only option is to get so much debt to be so poor you are below the poverty level? Also you must not know a lot about medicaid and medicare if you think that covers everything.

so i guess the guy who works for a business and the business goes under and fires employees or decalres bankrupcy, that was his fault for letting the business he works for and doesn't own go under. He should have had forsight and read the future? You do know how many small businesses go under every year, right?

so i have a hypothetical business job and have health insurance for my family. if the business goes under and closes and i now have to find a new job and i had cancer and i can't get anyone to give me insurance then i guess that's moral to you?

As a catholic you think its moral that because i lost a job i will now slowly die from my cancer as long as your not charged more? So in your mind that is the moral choice? To be able to deny a person coverage who will then slowly die?

[Roamin Catholic]

[quote]so basically your saying someone who develops cancer needs to go poor to be properly treated for their cancer? so if you develop cancer then your only option is to get so much debt to be so poor you are below the poverty level? Also you must not know a lot about medicaid and medicare if you think that covers everything.[/quote]

I know it doesn't cover anything, hence why you can purchase medi-gap policies if you want. But anywho back to your first point; some company out there will give a policy to a cancer patient, just be happy with the 10K+ deductible and high monthly premium..But not every company should be forced to..


[quote]so i guess the guy who works for a business and the business goes under and fires employees or decalres bankrupcy, that was his fault for letting the business he works for and doesn't own go under. He should have had forsight and read the future? You do know how many small businesses go under every year, right?[/quote]

Doesn't need foresight in this situation, they can get coverage through COBRA


[quote]so i have a hypothetical business job and have health insurance for my family. if the business goes under and closes and i now have to find a new job and i had cancer and i can't get anyone to give me insurance then i guess that's moral to you?[/quote]

COBRA



[quote]As a catholic you think its moral that because i lost a job i will now slowly die from my cancer as long as your not charged more? So in your mind that is the moral choice? To be able to deny a person coverage who will then slowly die?[/quote]

COBRA, you can pay the premium if you so choose. Not my fault if you don't and then get sick..I shouldn't have to pay for your mistakes.

Edited November 2, 2012 by Roamin_Catholic

[havok579257]

[quote name='Roamin_Catholic' timestamp='1351834794' post='2502767']
I know it doesn't cover anything, hence why you can purchase medi-gap policies if you want. But anywho back to your first point; some company out there will give a policy to a cancer patient, just be happy with the 10K+ deductible and high monthly premium..But not every company should be forced to..

Doesn't need foresight in this situation, they can get coverage through COBRA

COBRA

COBRA, you can pay the premium if you so choose.
[/quote]


your saying a company will cover the cancer patient but they don't have to. the person could be denied by all insurance companies. that's the whole point. no insurance compnay has to cover the person and they could be denied by everyone.

you continue to avoid my question over and over. as a practicing catholic, is it moral that a person can be denied from having health insurance and thus slowly die because they can not get the proper medication and treatment? is it moral to deny coverage to people so long as you don't have to pay more money? is it moral that the person will slowly die because they are denied coverage?

[Roamin Catholic]

[quote]
your saying a company will cover the cancer patient but they don't have to. the person could be denied by all insurance companies. that's the whole point. no insurance compnay has to cover the person and they could be denied by everyone.[/quote]

Ok,


[quote]you continue to avoid my question over and over. as a practicing catholic, is it moral that a person can be denied from having health insurance and thus slowly die because they can not get the proper medication and treatment? is it moral to deny coverage to people so long as you don't have to pay more money? is it moral that the person will slowly die because they are denied coverage?[/quote]

If they are sick and walk into the hospital, the hospital by law must treat them. I don't see a moral issue with my position...

FYI, I'll be away from the internet till monday evening, so please do not get offended if I do not reply to you...


Pax

[kujo]

[quote name='havok579257' timestamp='1351835070' post='2502776']
you continue to avoid my question over and over. as a practicing catholic, is it moral that a person can be denied from having health insurance and thus slowly die because they can not get the proper medication and treatment? is it moral to deny coverage to people so long as you don't have to pay more money? is it moral that the person will slowly die because they are denied coverage?
[/quote]

I'll answer your question: No, it's not moral.

But are businesses subject to Catholic morality? If so, who is to be the auditor of this new ethic? Should the U.S. government be empowered to evaluate and enforce?

[Roamin Catholic]

[quote name='kujo' timestamp='1351835410' post='2502779']

I'll answer your question: No, it's not moral.
[/quote]

Denying health insurance is a moral issue?? Hardly.

Denying one health care is indeed a moral issue, but I'm not saying we should deny healthcare to someone.

[havok579257]

[quote name='Roamin_Catholic' timestamp='1351835352' post='2502778']
Ok,




If they are sick and walk into the hospital, the hospital by law must treat them. I don't see a moral issue with my position...

FYI, I'll be away from the internet till monday evening, so please do not get offended if I do not reply to you...


Pax
[/quote]


i'm not trying to be offensive but you obviously have no idea how hospitals work when it comes to people who need care for a chronic condition. they treat you emergency's. they treat you for what you come in for. although the er will not give you chemo treatments when you come in. the er will not fill your prescriptions for you. the doctor will write your prescriptions for you but they won't fill them free of charge.

this growing sentiment that you walk into a hospital and they will treat you for anything and everything is absolutely false. i know how hospital's work and how doctors work. i take patients there for my job. this growing notion is absolutely false.

[havok579257]

[quote name='Roamin_Catholic' timestamp='1351835582' post='2502781']

Denying health insurance is a moral issue?? Hardly.

Denying one health care is indeed a moral issue, but I'm not saying we should deny healthcare to someone.
[/quote]


but denying health insurance is denying healthcare. unless someone can easily pull 200,000 dollars out of no where to cover his needed heart transplant. without health insurance your not getting that transplant until its to late and you come into the hospital with either an acute MI or in cardiac arrest.