Church/saint Teaching And Modesty

[IcePrincessKRS]

I know.

 

Do you? Are you suuuure? :P

[Basilisa Marie]

St. Pio may be a saint but he sounds like he was also a real jerk, to women especially.

 

That's because he WAS a total jerk especially to women.  Where were the special guidelines for men in line for confession? No button down shirt and tie? 

 

Saint =/= free from sin or imperfections or other privations of virtue. 

Edited April 9, 2013 by Basilisa Marie

[the171]

If you want to talk about modesty, start a new thread.

[the171]

Start a new thread if you want a p.ants debate.

[beatitude]

MarysLittleFlower,

 

As I said before, saints can be wrong. Personally I think that Padre Pio did a terrible thing by policing the dress of women who entered his confessional. I know one church in a bad area of London where all kinds of people have arrived for confession, including prostituted women, people who are absorbed in a very party lifestyle, etc. What would it be like if the priest were to turn these people away? The whole point of confession is that we are welcomed as we are, where we are. There is no minimum standard of holiness that you should have to meet before you can set foot in a confessional. Suppose a lapsed Catholic woman felt moved to go to confession one day, and was sent away by Padre Pio before she had a chance to confess before God what was on her heart? Suppose a woman who didn't actually own skirts to Padre Pio's specifications showed up, and was told to go away - even though she might have been too poor to buy any new clothes? A confessional is a good place for a priest to give advice and counsel, and if he had felt they needed guidance on modesty, he could have mentioned it there. But denying someone that sacrament is wrong. I once saw a banner outside a local church - "A saint is a sinner who keeps on trying". Padre Pio was a good man and a holy man, but like everyone else he was also a broken man, and not everything he did was perfect. I could show you quotations from saints like Augustine who argued that women are not really made in the image of God, not how men are. Are you going to argue that this is true too, because a saint said it?

 

If you hold that modesty is something objective, then it follows that women who do not abide by your modesty standard must be objectively wrong. Prefiguring these statements with things like 'Of course, I am not worthy to preach' does not necessarily make it sound any less judgmental - in fact, it sounds like theatrics, especially when you repeat these sentiments multiple times in a post. To be honest, when I read your modesty thread in VS - in which you wondered at length how it can be that all the good women around you don't seem to dress in the modest way that you do, even though you know you are so much more sinful than they are (repeated about ten times) - my initial reaction is, "Here is someone who wants to be told what a good humble Catholic she is being." I will be quite frank: you will know you are modest (insofar as any of us can know that) when it is not preoccupying your thoughts in the way it seems to be, and you no longer feel any need to compare your clothes with those of other women.

[the171]

Modesty is so much more than "is my skirt below my knees?"

[Papist]

Do you? Are you suuuure? :P

 

Not until my CO* tells me.

 

*  CO = Wife

[Lil Red]

Beautitude's posts are awesome.

[Lil Red]

Beautitude's posts are awesome.

[BG45]

Wait this is a modesty thread now?  *back out slowly* 

[carmenchristi]

I ran out of props on this thread. I NEVER run out of props!

[mysisterisalittlesister]

I predict the closing of this thread soon :p

[Basilisa Marie]

It's always a modesty thread. Don't you know that every time women talk about clothing, no matter what it is people have to tell them how wrong and immodest they are? It's like a rule of phatmass.  Right up there with anytime you vote for someone you're throwing your hat in the ring with Satan, and your liturgy can never be as holy as my liturgy.  :)  

[PhuturePriest]

I don't really think calling Saint Padre Pio a jerk especially to women is fair. This implies misogyny, which is obviously bad and a very big claim on a Saint. He certainly wasn't free from sin, but he is an outstanding Saint, and before we throw his image in the fire perhaps we should hold back judgement on him. He had modesty rules. So does the Vatican. The Vatican has quite strict modesty rules, in fact. If you try to go in and you don't fulfill the requirements, the Swiss Guard will tell you to take a hike and buy a skirt. I don't think he really had rules for men because men didn't really wear immodest clothing at the time (That I know of).

[carmenchristi]

I don't really think calling Saint Padre Pio a jerk especially to women is fair. This implies misogyny, which is obviously bad and a very big claim on a Saint. He certainly wasn't free from sin, but he is an outstanding Saint, and before we throw his image in the fire perhaps we should hold back judgement on him. He had modesty rules. So does the Vatican. The Vatican has quite strict modesty rules, in fact. If you try to go in and you don't fulfill the requirements, the Swiss Guard will tell you to take a hike and buy a skirt. I don't think he really had rules for men because men didn't really wear immodest clothing at the time (That I know of).

Actually, the rules aren't THAT strict. No short shorts or mini skirts, no spaghetti straps (you can go sleeveless as long as your shoulders are covered) no midriff showing, no rules about necklines as long as nothing is popping out. I'd say that's a pretty wide margin of leeway compared to what we are talking about here. And yes they let women wear p.ants.