"i Need Feminism Because..." Cambridge University Students Sha

[Lil Red]

and here's the source article: http://www.xojane.com/issues/christian-domestic-discipline

 

[Socrates]

Feminism may not be necessary to prevent bad behaviour against women, but it is necessary to prevent bad ideas about women and men. Like this idea of chivalry and manhood and honour, which has done a lot of harm to both genders. Those are old ideas, true. They predate feminism by centuries. And they belong there in the past.

 

I'm sure I'd disagree with you quite a bit regarding what ideas are bad and good.

 

Ideas of chivalry and honor actually did quite a lot to civilize men and lessen barbaric and brutal practices, as well as elevate the status of women in society - so any historically informed "real feminist" would actually do well to respect such ideals, rather than disparage them.

 

Also, the oldness or newness of an idea has little bearing on whether it is good or bad, true or false.

 

 

Today, we like to disparage "old-fashioned" ideas of honor and virtue - and then we act shocked that so many act utterly dishonorably.

[Socrates]

Finding examples of crazy fringe un-feminist groups and such does not prove that "we need feminism."

You could just as easy use examples of the many ridiculous and sometimes outright evil excesses of feminists to prove that we all need to oppose feminism.

 

This is no more logical than saying the existence of Communism means we need Nazism, or vice versa.

 

I agree with all those who pointed out that all that is really needed is to follow the teachings of Christ's Church.

Edited June 23, 2013 by Socrates

[the171]

I lost count of how many times I was cat called in my one day in NYC. I'm not a dog. I'm a woman.

[Gabriela]

we need feminism because of stuff like this:

 

The "Christian movement" that tells husbands to spank their wives "to correct misbehavior"

 

The trend is called Christian Domestic Discipline and much of what is known about the practice is published on the website Learning Domestic Discipline, published by husband and wife CDD duo, Clint and Chelsea.

 

The website states: 'It is an arrangement between two adults who share the belief that the husband is the head of the household and with that position comes the right to enforce his authority.'

 

In the packet they describe CDD as a ‘practice between two consenting life partners in which the head of household (HoH) takes the necessary measures to achieve a healthy relationship dynamic.’  

 

That translates to all methods of punishment, not exclusive to spanking. Clint and Chelsea advocate lecturing, removing privileges, corner and bedroom time – essentially the ways most people discipline their children. 

 

For CDD enthusiasts, this type of punishment isn’t sexual in nature.

 

(more at the link)

 

Search deep, deep inside you, Lil Red. What is it that tells you that this practice is wrong? Your relationship with Christ, the Bible, and Church teaching, or feminism?

[Gabriela]

I lost count of how many times I was cat called in my one day in NYC. I'm not a dog. I'm a woman.

 

See Socrates' posts. Or mine: Just convert these people and your problem will be solved.

 

I have to say, I'm quite shocked that Christians would argue that feminism is necessary, when Christ Himself has told us that He is all we need. To struggle for just treatment of women as a Christian places Christ at the center of that justice—not just ideologically, but also practically and spiritually. To struggle for just treatment of women as a feminist—i.e., a "femin-ist", a "woman-ist"—places WOMEN at the center of that struggle. As if women are an end in themselves. It is that confusion between Christ as center/end and women as center/end that leads to the prioritization of women's desires over children's lives.

 

Remove women from the center of your arguments and put Christ there. The rest will follow.

[the171]

I've read your posts. Not impressed. Sorry.

[Gabriela]

I've read your posts. Not impressed. Sorry.

 

In other words: You believe that Christ is insufficient?

[the171]

Word games are fun for you, aren't they?

[Gabriela]

Word games are fun for you, aren't they?

 

There's no need to get catty. I am serious. (And to answer your question: Yes, they're a blast. But I'm not playing one right now.) If you believe that Christ is sufficient for salvation, but not sufficient to turn us into good people who love and pursue justice for all, then...

 

That is my point.

 

For the sake of total disclosure (which I hope will snuff out the resentment I sense in this thread): I was a militant feminist in college. It is from that experience that I came to see what allegiance to such a secular perspective can do to a person's soul. I became a terrible person. Certainly, not every feminist's story is as extreme as mine was. But any attachment to a secular view of justice can seriously harm our understanding of Christ's total sufficiency. I understand where a lot of those arguing for feminism in this thread are coming from. But I see their arguments as the outgrowth of an attachment to a worldview that feminists have told them is necessary for justice. It is not. If you prayerfully consider that together with Our Lord, I have no doubt that you will come to agree.

[Ice_nine]

we need feminism because of stuff like this:

 

The "Christian movement" that tells husbands to spank their wives "to correct misbehavior"

 

The trend is called Christian Domestic Discipline and much of what is known about the practice is published on the website Learning Domestic Discipline, published by husband and wife CDD duo, Clint and Chelsea.

 

The website states: 'It is an arrangement between two adults who share the belief that the husband is the head of the household and with that position comes the right to enforce his authority.'

 

In the packet they describe CDD as a ‘practice between two consenting life partners in which the head of household (HoH) takes the necessary measures to achieve a healthy relationship dynamic.’  

 

That translates to all methods of punishment, not exclusive to spanking. Clint and Chelsea advocate lecturing, removing privileges, corner and bedroom time – essentially the ways most people discipline their children. 

 

For CDD enthusiasts, this type of punishment isn’t sexual in nature.

 

(more at the link)

 

I spent a few years entrenched in the internets forums with the born-agains, baptists and evangelicals and there's a lot of this crap in those circles. I know some Catholics might subscribe to this crap to. Ugh, cannot say I'm surprised.

 

Also this is only a little less creepy than purity balls and that's saying something.

[Nihil Obstat]

I spent a few years entrenched in the internets forums with the born-agains, baptists and evangelicals and there's a lot of this croutons in those circles. I know some Catholics might subscribe to this croutons to. Ugh, cannot say I'm surprised.

 

Also this is only a little less creepy than purity balls and that's saying something.

 

What is a purity ball?

[Dr. Bombay]

Women, again, are not suited for certain occupations; a woman is by nature fitted for home-work, and it is that which is best adapted at once to preserve her modesty and to promote the good bringing up of children and the well-being of the family. -- Pope Leo XIII, Rerum Novarum

 

Listen to your Papa.  He knows what's good for you.  Go read the whole thing, you will achieve enlightenment.

 

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/leo_xiii/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_15051891_rerum-novarum_en.html

[ardillacid]

I'm moving this to the debate table...

[Ice_nine]

It's like a father daughter dance, only really weird. Lots of emphasis on fathers protecting their daughters' purity until they are under the protection of their husbands. You can youtube it but, although I think purity balls are totally weird, most of the docs are like ZOMG RELIGION IS TARRIBLE! COMPREHENSIVE SEX ED! CONDOMS!