BurkeFan Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 Question: (and i mean this in a nonconfrontary manner) Do you lifeteeners ever see moving beyond Lifeteen Masses? I mean, what kind of Mass do you see yourself attending in college? After college? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lifeteenchick527 Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 i go to the 8:00 am Mass on sundays and the lifeteen mass...so any catholic mass...i would probably prefer to go to a youth mass or something like that .... but Mass is Mass so as long as its a Mass...i can see myself goin to it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toledo_jesus Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 [quote name='BurkeFan' date='Jan 31 2005, 09:11 PM'] Question: (and i mean this in a nonconfrontary manner) Do you lifeteeners ever see moving beyond Lifeteen Masses? I mean, what kind of Mass do you see yourself attending in college? After college? [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgirl Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 To answer the question, I am a former Life Teen teen. I was never too terribly into the Life Teen Mass, but I went because the catechesis was right on. I wasn't getting it at school, and I wasn't getting it from my parents, but I got it there. My senior year of high school, I helped the Missionaries of Charity every Sunday morning, and we took our Sunday School kids to the Church right next door for Mass. If people say that Life Teen Masses are awful, the Masses at St. Teresa were 500 times worse, but I digress. I went from Life Teen to Steubenville. It wasn't too much of a change, but it was more mainstream and hardly anything was done wrong. Then second semester, I was a core member for Life Teen in Steubenville, so I went to those Masses. Then that folded, and the next two years, I rarely went to Mass on campus (except the daily Mass where I was sacristan and household Mass on Friday nights). I loved the praise and worship Masses, but I could only take so much because I found the protestant songs to be empty, both aesthetically and in meaning. I did move beyond the Life Teen Masses--before I graduated from high school (probably when I first started coming). What I loved about them though were the homilies, and that's why I came back--because a priest cared enough about my spiritual welfare to preach to me. The ironic thing is that I still go to Life Teen Mass every Sunday. I am on core team so that I can teach teens what I learned on the catechetical end of things. However, I love Masses with old school hymns, lots of servers and incense. I'm even looking into a religious community swings more toward the traditional end than to the Life Teen end, but I would have never been encouraged to pursue that vocation had I not had Life Teen. I do think that some people overreact in the face of Life Teen. Even if you don't like the music (which is my big complaint), you have to realize that Christ is just as fully present in the Eucharist there as in a Mass with awful St. Louis Jesuits music, old school Gregorian chant or those daily Masses with no music at all. Jen P.S. BurkeFan, I saw the article in the review where you were interviewed. I would assume you know Eric O who was also interviewed since he goes to the cathedral, too. Ask him his opinion on Life Teen, too, because I met him on a service retreat the summer before my senior year. He was active in Life Teen in St. Louis like I was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurkeFan Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 [quote name='jgirl' date='Jan 31 2005, 10:58 PM'] P.S. BurkeFan, I saw the article in the review where you were interviewed. I would assume you know Eric O who was also interviewed since he goes to the cathedral, too. Ask him his opinion on Life Teen, too, because I met him on a service retreat the summer before my senior year. He was active in Life Teen in St. Louis like I was. [/quote] He and I have talked on this before, and his opinion (from which I got my opinion, since I kind of skipped the Life Teen phase) was that Life Teen can be a useful stepping stone into the more traditional forms of worship. I can ask him a bit more indepth, if you'd like, but that's about the best summary that I can come up with. Basically, Life Teen should be seen as a transition into the standard / traditional Mass instead of as an end in itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jezic Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 what is wrong with a form of modern worship. Why don't we have apostalic services like the people did in the old days before the Romans started in on things. You could argue that was how it was "meant" to be done. Or any other number of rites. Then you could whip out Scripture and witnesses and sit there the entire day. (that would be awesome btw) My point is let the lifeteens have their mass and you can have your traditional one. There can also be greek and french and african dancing and a whole bunch of others. The mass has changed through the centuries. Now is no different, just because we are trying to maintain our roots doesn't mean that change is going to kill us. If it is a bad thing God will take care of it. It is his church and His service anyway. As long as the doctrine is there then there is not a huge deal about the service is there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurkeFan Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 (edited) Well, the issue arises regarding the source of the liturgical innovation. Sacrosanctum Concilium clearly states "Therefore no other person, even if he be a priest, may add, remove, or change anything in the liturgy on his own authority." (21.3) When we start tweaking the Mass to get it to how *we* like it, then there's a problem. But, thankfully, to the best of my knowledge, this is not what's going on with Life Teen. However, there was an important point: the Mass is bigger than any of us. I think that the experiential/existential depth of the Mass comes out most fully in the traditional forms of worship (by this, I mean those that have been officially promulgated by the Holy See). This is not to denigrate Life Teen at all, and definitely not to assault the validity of Life Teen Masses. It is to say that the Church keeps the traditional forms around for a very profound reason: because they correspond deeply to our natures. The Church would not, in her collected wisdom and under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, maintain that which was not conducive to piety and worship. The Mass (properly celebrated) is the way it is because we are the way we are. Edit: I am reminded of something that Josef Pieper wrote on "excess" in liturgical celebrations in regards to justice: "The obligation of sacrifice is an obligation of natural law. I claim that this doctrine is more easily understood if we set out with the idea of a [i]debitum[/i] that cannot be repaid, that is, with the notion of an actually existing obligation that nevertheless and by its very nature cannot be wiped out. Here perhaps is the key to the extravagance inherent in religious acts. Helplessness and impotency prompt this extravagance; because it is impossible to do what "properly" ought to be done, an effort beyond the bounds of reason, as it were, tries to compensate for the insufficiency... Such [i]excessus[/i], then, seems to be a quality of every properly religious act, of sacrifice, adoration, and devotion. It is an attempt to respond to the fact of a relation of indebtedness, an attempt that is the most "adequate" possible under the circumstances, but one that must always remain "inadequate" because it cannot ever achieve a complete [i]restitutio[/i]." -The Four Cardinal Virtues, 106-107 Edited February 1, 2005 by BurkeFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popestpiusx Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 One thing to keep in mind here, Jezic, is that the Mass is not there for our entertainment, personal devotion, etc. The Mass exists for the Glory of God. It is the Sacrifice of Christ offered to the Father for our sins. It is the supreme act of adoration, first by the Son, then by us when we unite ourselves to the actions of the Son. The Mass is not offered to us, and only secondarily for us. The point is, it is not ours to mold into whatever creation we would like to produce. It is our responsibility to unite ourselves to the Sacrifice, not to lower the Sacrifice to our level. That means rising above that which is bound to a specific time and entering the timeless, the eternal. The Eastern Divine Liturgies do a very good job of conveying this. The Latin Liturgy used to (and in some places still does) but has lost much of that in the last several decades. By trying to make itself specifically "modern", it has sacrificed it's timelessness. Secondly, the claim that the early "apostolic liturgies" were sort of free-for-all prayer meetings lacking specific structure is simply without merit. It is a claim invented by protestants and modern liturgists inorder to justify every sort of liturgical abuse. Liturgical manuscripts from the time are scarce, if not non-existent. However, there are a few things out there and everything points in the opposite direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popestpiusx Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 By the way, to say "Why don't we have apostalic services like the people did in the old days before the Romans started in on things." is a bit of a silly thing to say considering the fact that the See of Rome has primacy over all others. When the Romans started in on things, it is because they had every right to. It was not a foreign invasion. It was Papa guiding the Church's supreme act of worship in its development. Guiding, mind you. Not inventing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgirl Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 [quote name='BurkeFan' date='Jan 31 2005, 11:09 PM'] He and I have talked on this before, and his opinion (from which I got my opinion, since I kind of skipped the Life Teen phase) was that Life Teen can be a useful stepping stone into the more traditional forms of worship. I can ask him a bit more indepth, if you'd like, but that's about the best summary that I can come up with. Basically, Life Teen should be seen as a transition into the standard / traditional Mass instead of as an end in itself. [/quote] That was eactly how I thought he would answer! I totally agree. The problem is when it isn't a stepping stone. Those are te people who after graduation fall apart. I don't think it's Life Teen's fault though because I have seen it happen to my friends. They are the ones who don't go to the Mass because of Christ; they go because the music is cool or--more often--because their friends go. When the friends aren't there, why should they go to Church? As a core member, I know that Life Teen is really trying to solve that problem more on the catechesis side with the life nights. I also know that in the town where I am on core, the Catholic Churches had been losing teenagers to one of those non-denominational mega Churches. You have to offer something that counters it. Our Life Teen Mass is definitely a Peoria diocese Mass (altar boys, incense at every Mass, etc.), but with the upbeat music (but not as loud and concert like as the Life Teen parish where I went, Incarnate Word). So it is far from irreverant. The important thing is that it is a Mass. While it is a stepping stone, it is a fully valid Mass. I'm not a heretic or a sinner because I help out with the program and go to Life Teen Mass instead of a more traditional one (and those are few and far in between--the Life Teen Masses are often more correct than your average 10:30 Mass at most parishes) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiL Kat Said Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 [quote name='dUSt' date='Jan 31 2005, 07:03 PM'] Maybe. [/quote] Feel free to tour on over to Houston if ya do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XIX Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 Any specific examples of "liturgial abuses?" I'd respond to one of your anti-lifeteen posts, but I have no idea what I'm responding to. From what I know they are faithful to the Church...so I really don't understand the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenchild17 Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 Ditto everything XIX just said. I love all kinds of Masses, from Latin to Lifeteen. I especially enjoy it since the changes have been made. I also am helping out the Core teams. I hope to be a full Core member and group leader before too long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rachael Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 how did i know this would turn into yet another Lifeteen debate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jezic Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 why would people need to debate life teen, that is more what i understand. My earlier questions didn't mean we need to change anything, i just don't understand why this should be a debate at all. If it is a valid mass then fine, if not then stop it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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