Could Mary have sinned?

[Veridicus]

..... .....

[allis-challmers]

[quote]Eve was created without original sin. She sinned[/quote]


I think that Mary like Jesus was created without original sin. They could have sinned but they had enough grace and willpower not to sin.

[Veridicus]

[quote name='allis-challmers' date='28 February 2010 - 04:01 PM' timestamp='1267394510' post='2064437']
I think that Mary like Jesus was created without original sin. They could have sinned but they had enough grace and willpower not to sin.
[/quote]

Good to see another poster from Southern Indiana. It is my understanding that the Church teaches that Christ was impeccable (that is He [i]could not[/i] have sinned). See [url="http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/dictionary/index.cfm?id=34113"]catholicculture.org[/url]

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='kafka' date='28 February 2010 - 01:28 PM' timestamp='1267388928' post='2064391']
. . . I am denying the possibility. . . .
[/quote]
I only disagree with this point.

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Veridicus' date='28 February 2010 - 03:15 PM' timestamp='1267395348' post='2064438']
Good to see another poster from Southern Indiana. It is my understanding that the Church teaches that Christ was impeccable (that is He [i]could not[/i] have sinned). See [url="http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/dictionary/index.cfm?id=34113"]catholicculture.org[/url]
[/quote]
Christ could not sin because He is a divine and uncreated person. To be more precise, Christ could not sin either in His natures (divine and - after the incarnation - human), or in His personal (i.e., enhypostatic) mode of willing within those natures, because He is God made man.

Edited February 28, 2010 by Apotheoun

[Veridicus]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='28 February 2010 - 05:04 PM' timestamp='1267398266' post='2064468']
I only disagree with this point.
[/quote]

I agree with your point of disagreement.

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='28 February 2010 - 05:07 PM' timestamp='1267398440' post='2064470']
Christ could not sin because He is a divine and uncreated person. To be more precise, Christ could not sin either in His natures (divine and - after the incarnation - human), or in His personal (i.e., enhypostatic) mode of willing within those natures, because He is God made man.
[/quote]

Once again, more eloquently than me.

[add]

NO and the same goes for my birth mother

[Damiano]

*["Those who do not have the ability to sin experience a greater freedom than those who can. i believe Mary had such 'greater' freedom, in that she was incapable of sinning."]

***All of your and your church's musings are mere SPECULATION with NO (i.e., zero...zilch) support in Scripture. Mary was a born sinner: "As it is written, there is NONE righteous, NO, NOT ONE: There is NONE that understandeth, there is NONE that seeketh after God" [Romans 3:10-11].

Damiano

[aalpha1989]

[quote name='Damiano' date='09 March 2010 - 03:44 PM' timestamp='1268167465' post='2069708']
*["Those who do not have the ability to sin experience a greater freedom than those who can. i believe Mary had such 'greater' freedom, in that she was incapable of sinning."]

***All of your and your church's musings are mere SPECULATION with NO (i.e., zero...zilch) support in Scripture. Mary was a born sinner: "As it is written, there is NONE righteous, NO, NOT ONE: There is NONE that understandeth, there is NONE that seeketh after God" [Romans 3:10-11].

Damiano
[/quote]

Have you been around here before?

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='aalpha1989' date='09 March 2010 - 01:46 PM' timestamp='1268167580' post='2069709']
Have you been around here before?
[/quote]
He likes to "stop storms."

[aalpha1989]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='09 March 2010 - 03:47 PM' timestamp='1268167662' post='2069710']
He likes to "stop storms."
[/quote]

That's kinda what I thought. I wish I could have 3+ screen names... on second thought my post count would be lower.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Damiano' date='09 March 2010 - 03:44 PM' timestamp='1268167465' post='2069708']
*["Those who do not have the ability to sin experience a greater freedom than those who can. i believe Mary had such 'greater' freedom, in that she was incapable of sinning."]

***All of your and your church's musings are mere SPECULATION with NO (i.e., zero...zilch) support in Scripture. Mary was a born sinner: "As it is written, there is NONE righteous, NO, NOT ONE: There is NONE that understandeth, there is NONE that seeketh after God" [Romans 3:10-11].

Damiano
[/quote]
Welcome to Phatmass!

I think you'll find that we have much Scripture to support our beliefs. I'm sorry that someone has misled you to think otherwise. Enjoy your stay!

[Nihil Obstat]

Oh how fun. We've been distinctly lacking in the irrational trolls department lately.

[Damiano]

*["...Mary did not sin by God's grace..."]

***This is a lie. There is NO SUPPORT for your statement in Scripture...so your statement is just SPECULATION with NO PROOF. Mary, like everyone else, was born in SIN {Romans 3:10-11;Psalm 51:5].


*["..She most certainly endured temptation but did not fail ever ONLY because of the grace of God. This had to have been her will in complete union with God's will. Thus I think it had to be will against temptation rather than just passive inability to sin. Most certainly satan tried to bring her under the power of sin as well as her son."]

***Mere SPECULATION..."This had to have been"..."Thus I think it had to be"..."Most certainly"...yada...yada. There is NO SUPPORT for speculation in Scripture.

Damiano

[Nihil Obstat]

[aalpha1989]

[quote name='Damiano' date='09 March 2010 - 03:59 PM' timestamp='1268168361' post='2069719']


***Mere SPECULATION..."This had to have been"..."Thus I think it had to be"..."Most certainly"...yada...yada. There is NO SUPPORT for speculation in Scripture.

Damiano
[/quote]

So scripture forbids theological developments? Where?

[Damiano]

*["Note that nobody (so far) has claimed that she had sinned, but that she COULD have sinned."]

***Let me be the FIRST to announce to all on this board that your "goddess" Mary...the "Queen of Heaven" was a BORN SINNER [Romans 3:10-11;Psalm 51:5] and in need of a SAVIOR. Too, she ADMITTED that she was a sinner and her spirit rejoiced in God her SAVIOUR...hear her: "And Mary said, 'My soul doth magnify the Lord, And my spirit hath rejoiced in God MY SAVIOUR'" [Luke 1:46-47]. Only SINNERS are in need of a SAVIOR [1 Timothy 1:15]...and Mary said she rejoiced in God her SAVIOR [Luke 1:46-47]...(i.e., Jesus is God her SAVIOR...that "thing" in her womb was her Creator-God...John 1:3).

BOTTOM LINE: Mary was a born sinner and admitted a need of a SAVIOR...and REJOICED when He came for her. Instead the Catholic Church makes her a "goddess" who is NOT in need of a Saviour and exalts her to DEITY as "Queen of Heaven"...with NO SUPPORT in Scripture.

Damiano

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Damiano' date='09 March 2010 - 04:00 PM' timestamp='1268172004' post='2069778']
*["Note that nobody (so far) has claimed that she had sinned, but that she COULD have sinned."]

***Let me be the FIRST to announce to all on this board that your "goddess" Mary...the "Queen of Heaven" was a BORN SINNER [Romans 3:10-11;Psalm 51:5] and in need of a SAVIOR. Too, she ADMITTED that she was a sinner and her spirit rejoiced in God her SAVIOUR...hear her: "And Mary said, 'My soul doth magnify the Lord, And my spirit hath rejoiced in God MY SAVIOUR'" [Luke 1:46-47]. Only SINNERS are in need of a SAVIOR [1 Timothy 1:15]...and Mary said she rejoiced in God her SAVIOR [Luke 1:46-47]...(i.e., Jesus is God her SAVIOR...that "thing" in her womb was her Creator-God...John 1:3).

BOTTOM LINE: Mary was a born sinner and admitted a need of a SAVIOR...and REJOICED when He came for her. Instead the Catholic Church makes her a "goddess" who is NOT in need of a Saviour and exalts her to DEITY as "Queen of Heaven"...with NO SUPPORT in Scripture.

Damiano
[/quote]
[img]http://www.freethoughtpedia.com/images/Strawman-motivational.jpg[/img]

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='Damiano' date='09 March 2010 - 03:59 PM' timestamp='1268168361' post='2069719']
*["...Mary did not sin by God's grace..."]

***This is a lie. There is NO SUPPORT for your statement in Scripture...so your statement is just SPECULATION with NO PROOF. Mary, like everyone else, was born in SIN {Romans 3:10-11;Psalm 51:5].


*["..She most certainly endured temptation but did not fail ever ONLY because of the grace of God. This had to have been her will in complete union with God's will. Thus I think it had to be will against temptation rather than just passive inability to sin. Most certainly satan tried to bring her under the power of sin as well as her son."]

***Mere SPECULATION..."This had to have been"..."Thus I think it had to be"..."Most certainly"...yada...yada. There is NO SUPPORT for speculation in Scripture.

Damiano
[/quote]

"καὶ εἰσελθὼν ὁ ἄγγελος πρὸς αὐτὴν εἶπε· χαῖρε, κεχαριτωμένη· ὁ Κύριος μετὰ σοῦ· εὐλογημένη σὺ ἐν γυναιξίν."

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Damiano' date='09 March 2010 - 05:00 PM' timestamp='1268172004' post='2069778']
*["Note that nobody (so far) has claimed that she had sinned, but that she COULD have sinned."]

***Let me be the FIRST to announce to all on this board that your "goddess" Mary...the "Queen of Heaven" was a BORN SINNER [Romans 3:10-11;Psalm 51:5] and in need of a SAVIOR. Too, she ADMITTED that she was a sinner and her spirit rejoiced in God her SAVIOUR...hear her: "And Mary said, 'My soul doth magnify the Lord, And my spirit hath rejoiced in God MY SAVIOUR'" [Luke 1:46-47]. Only SINNERS are in need of a SAVIOR [1 Timothy 1:15]...and Mary said she rejoiced in God her SAVIOR [Luke 1:46-47]...(i.e., Jesus is God her SAVIOR...that "thing" in her womb was her Creator-God...John 1:3).

BOTTOM LINE: Mary was a born sinner and admitted a need of a SAVIOR...and REJOICED when He came for her. Instead the Catholic Church makes her a "goddess" who is NOT in need of a Saviour and exalts her to DEITY as "Queen of Heaven"...with NO SUPPORT in Scripture.

Damiano
[/quote]

Mary, a fully human and merely human woman (not a goddess) needed a Savior. Mary was saved from sin by way of preservation.

Bam. Bottom line annihilated.

Have a nice day.

By the way, Damiano:

[img]http://celticwander.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/san-damiano-cross.jpg[/img]

The San Damiano Cross

God bless,

Micah

PS - Since you show no signs of being anything but an uncharitable troll bent on stopping your ears and arrogantly shouting your falsehood, I shall say "Ni!" to you and no more.