JustJ Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 Well, that's a really sad format for getting the answers, because I think it should be different based on the situations. I'll admit I haven't actually read the thread, though. Clearly, many Christians put forth the idea of no sex before marriage, so you could say that, as ambiguously as it is. Why not instead think of it this way. Guys, if you will get married, that means your future wife is probably out there in the world right now. However, she's with another guy. How far would you want those two to go? Remember, that's your future wife! In accordance with the Rule of "Don't Be A Jerk", you should imagine that other men might feel the same way about how much they want doing with their future wife, and so you should generally stop where you would want them to stop. Some of you may think that's in different places, but hey, that's fine. I'm not really here to judge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veridicus Posted June 29, 2008 Share Posted June 29, 2008 [quote name='JustJ' post='1585857' date='Jun 28 2008, 06:50 PM']Well, that's a really sad format for getting the answers, because I think it should be different based on the situations. I'll admit I haven't actually read the thread, though. Clearly, many Christians put forth the idea of no sex before marriage, so you could say that, as ambiguously as it is. ... ... In accordance with the Rule of "Don't Be A Jerk"...[/quote] The theological and philosophical basis for abstinence before marriage is much more clearly defined and maintained in the teaching of the Catholic tradition than in many other Christian traditions. There is nothing ambiguous about Catholic teaching on sex...although it is very commonly misquoted and misunderstood. You should read Humanae Vitae or the writings of JPII on the Theology of the Body in order to get a better grasp of the Catholic position. There have probably been plenty of threads on Phatmass about it too so search for them and check it out. The Catholic teaching runs much, much, much deeper than the 'don't be a jerk' approach. The problem with the 'don't be a jerk' approach is that it presupposes that both 'the jerk' and the guy who later comes along and marries the girl in question have a similar view on sex. Caring what another guy has or has not done with your wife is drawn from a potentially unrecognized internal understanding of the true purpose of sex and marriage (as defined by the Catholic Church). A man doesn't want another guy having intercourse with his wife (before they are married) because in marriage they become one and the though of somone else sharing a sexual act intrudes on that later intimacy. A man doesn't want another guy engaging in any sexual act with the woman who is to become his wife because deep down we recognize that all of those encounters are somewhat selfishly detracting from complete self-giving in marital intercourse. Sex isn't a one time event but one of the founding actions of a covenential relationship between a man and a woman and their God. There is a lot more to it, but you are free to read up on that on your own; I won't rehash old posts here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted July 2, 2008 Share Posted July 2, 2008 [quote name='mommas_boy' post='1567538' date='Jun 10 2008, 08:13 PM']I'll add my voice to the discussion without reading the other posts, and likely echo several: My thoughts: men come with a built-in chastity indicator. When the indicator goes off, it's a good time to stop.[/quote] I disagree, just a little bit. There are some things that a lot of different people have no control over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EstoVir_TheWay_4 Posted July 2, 2008 Share Posted July 2, 2008 [quote]My thoughts: men come with a built-in chastity indicator. When the indicator goes off, it's a good time to stop.[/quote] Good luck stopping when the indicator gets red! Yeah, many of us know where our limits are when it comes to physical intimacy before we lose control, but it's not enough to just go along until our alarm sounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corban711 Posted July 2, 2008 Share Posted July 2, 2008 [quote name='missionseeker' post='1522901' date='May 9 2008, 12:05 AM']I think healthy touches are good for a relationship. I can understand wanting to save kisses for marriage and think it admirable, to an extent. HOWEVER, if the problem is no touches because it leads to fornication... then... then there is a problem. A problem rooted in a misunderstanding of human relations and sexuality. Our sexuality is a means to our salvation. Sex is not bad. But it is only good in its proper place. As my philosophy professor says "at the right time, in the right place, with the right person for the right reason". If you cannot hold someone's hand without thinking about sex, then you have a problem. If you are afraid that by hugging someone, then you are sinning, then step back and think about it. The physicality begins while friends and finds its culmination in marriage. As friends, guys and girls generally exchange hugs (and sometimes kisses). Why is it ok as friends and not ok as a couple? No, just like friendship is deepened when a relationship moves beyond friendship, so too does the physical aspect. As the souls become closer, so do the bodies. THIS IS NOT TO SAY THAT FORNICATION IS OK. THIS IS JUST TO SAY THAT THE HUGS (AND KISSES) BECOME MORE INTIMATE AND EXCLUSIVE. We [i]are[/i] spiritual AND physical beings and our relations with others mirror that. There is NOTHING wrong with an intimate kiss in an inimate relationship. If you can't restrain your desires, then you are treating your partner as an object, not a person. That's YOUR problem, not theirs. Not a universal problem for the law is no touching until marriage. Seriously, if touching is that big of a deal for a guy, why would you want to date him? If he can't hug or kiss you without thinking about sex, then he doesn't REALLY love you and he's treating you as a sexual object.[/quote] somehow i think i must have stopped following this thread, as i don't remember seeing this post. but im going to join Catherine's fan club here. great post Catherine that basically summed up most of my thoughts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EstoVir_TheWay_4 Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 Repression = bad Acceptance + Discipline = Good I like kissing. But I also like praying with my girlfriend. Do a little of both... unless you don't want to kiss. That's ok. Praying, however, is not an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 I think a good measure of what to do and what not to do would be to think of Jesus standing right there next to the two of you doing it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok579257 Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 [quote name='dominicansoul' post='1590445' date='Jul 3 2008, 05:55 PM']I think a good measure of what to do and what not to do would be to think of Jesus standing right there next to the two of you doing it![/quote] I can't agree with that because if Jesus was standing next to anyone, who would really have sex with their spouse right next to Jesus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pan!c139 Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 I think it's okay to kiss for a very short period of time, and to do some touching, but nothing major - it could lead to sin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.P. Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 Depends on the intent. One cannot kiss to arouse themselves or to feel self gratification. Kissing should be a natural expression of affection and affirmation. Anything other than that is a cheap counterfiet. For me it's as easy as that. 1,2 and 3! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pan!c139 Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 ^ Yup same here...I don't have a boyfriend yet, but it should be pretty easy for me too...especially because I know what you said above...I just hope my boyfriend does too, otherwise he won't be my boyfriend lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.P. Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 Easier in theory though than it is in practice. Stay spiritually cleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeean!...... ...and it should be much easier to achieve that end pan!c. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pan!c139 Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 Yup. I strive every day. I've never made any serious sin against purity or chastity, and my prayer every day is that I never do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.P. Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 *high five* Keep it up, trooper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbarus Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 [quote name='J.P.' post='1633830' date='Aug 21 2008, 06:15 PM']Depends on the intent. One cannot kiss to arouse themselves or to feel self gratification. Kissing should be a natural expression of affection and affirmation. Anything other than that is a cheap counterfiet. For me it's as easy as that. 1,2 and 3![/quote] I used to think it was easy, but I've found that being in serious relationships muddies the water pretty significantly. Kissing is a natural expression of affection and affirmation, but in the context of a serious, loving relationship it also leads to arousal. At the right time and place, it doesn't take much to get to that point. Even if you're trying act chastely, and to honor each other in the relationship, there are times that doing that is very, very difficult because the feelings you have (both physical and emotional) are natural, but you recognize that there is a certain context in which allowing those feelings to have free reign is right, and other contexts in which it is not. And maintaining the right attitude toward the other person, particularly when the pleasure he or she gives you is so great ... this is difficult to do as well. Love is a lot of work. Worth it, but a lot of work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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