A Random Vocations Chat Type Of Thread

[vee]

I thought the following might be helpful. Blessed Elizabeth of the Trinity wrote to her friend, who also desried to enter Carmel but faced opposition from her mom, reassuring her friend that she could already live as a Carmelite because "Jesus knows the Carmelite by what is within her, by her soul."

I think it's safe to say that any Order would apply Dominican, Franciscan etc and so once you enter you are finally outwardly showing, by the location & habit, what has long been an inner reality.

Edit to fix typo

Edited July 19, 2010 by vee8

[Sarah147]

I've been looking at orders on google. I feel like pulling my hair out over the orders without habits, especially when I see them in karate outfits, or colorful, shiny, "shirts" and things. It screams "reform" to me. The men's orders seem to be doing so much better.

Another thing that really bugged me was a nice Marian order [url="http://schsrsmary.org"]http://schsrsmary.org[/url] that turns out to NOT take the three vows! Pull my hair out, will you?

Heh. Just needed to vent.

[vee]

[quote name='JoyfulLife' date='18 July 2010 - 07:19 PM' timestamp='1279498749' post='2144535']
I've been looking at orders on google. I feel like pulling my hair out over the orders without habits, especially when I see them in karate outfits, or colorful, shiny, "shirts" and things. It screams "reform" to me. The men's orders seem to be doing so much better.

Another thing that really bugged me was a nice Marian order [url="http://schsrsmary.org"]http://schsrsmary.org[/url] that turns out to NOT take the three vows! Pull my hair out, will you?

Heh. Just needed to vent.
[/quote]

Karate outfits?! Ok I've gotta see this! Any links or pics?

[Sarah147]

LOL!

I found it! It's so sad.





[img]http://amcatholic.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/disobedient-sister-elsa-garcia-sister-of-divine-providence.jpg?w=180&h=255[/img]
Sister Elsa Garcia Practicing a Pagan Ritual

[url="http://the-american-catholic.com/2010/05/21/booming-traditional-relgious-orders/"]http://the-american-...elgious-orders/[/url]





Here's some disturbing outfits I saw:


[img]http://www.shc.edu/theolibrary/graphics/orders.jpg[/img]
[size="1"]The Benedictine Sisters of Erie

[/size][url="http://www.shc.edu/theolibrary/orders.htm"]http://www.shc.edu/t...rary/orders.htm[/url]



Reform! Reform!

Edited July 19, 2010 by JoyfulLife

[vee]

Oh my.

I know this could easily turn into another habit debate so I hope to stop it before it does. Yes we know there are very good and holy Sisters who don't wear a habit for certain reasons, and there are habited Sisters who are pretty unholy. It is unfortunate that the attire of some non habited Sisters though is unbecoming for whatever reason. In a lighthearted way I was curious to see some of the more cring worthy clothes Sisters are wearing similar to the bad vestments thread over on open mic I think it is.

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

I haven't decided what I think about religious Orders that don't wear a habit a habit at all, versus those that wear a traditional or modified habit.

Many Orders of Sisters who don't wear habits take the same vows as habited sisters, lead a life totally consecrated to God, etc., with the exception of what they define as a mark of their religious vows (sometimes a small pin, etc.) They have their own reasons for not wearing a traditional habit, one of which is that the clothing we think of as a habit today was actually peasant dress centuries ago. I can see pros and cons of this.

In the U.S., it is hard for an Order to adopt some kind of contemporary dressing like the poor. With an Order like the the Missionaries of Charity, the Sisters wear a habit, but their sari is little different from the sari that a poor woman would wear in India. We don't really have that in the U.S.

Allthough I see it as less than ideal, I have less of a problem with Orders who don't wear a habit for whatever reason, but who dress in very plain, simple, clothes, wear no jewelry except maybe a watch, wear their hair in simple styles, don't wear make-up, etc. And, at least some of these Orders wear some type of habit or robe in chapel. After all, the Jesuits do not wear a habit in public, or normally even in chapel, although they usually do wear secular religious-type garb, similar to what Diocesan priests wear, such as a Roman collar. While some Catholics may not like some things they teach, the Jesuits are still a "real" Order, despite their lack of a habit.

It's when I see Orders of Sisters wearing bright clothes, sometimes wearing make-up, wearing expensive hair styles, etc. that I start to wonder. None of those things seem to fit the vows of a religious Sister.

But, unfortunately, we can't judge a Sister by her habit, because there are habited Orders that are not in obedience to the Pope.

So, each Order and Community has to be looked at individually--a painstaking process.

Just a note: The Sister in the photo in the post above doesn't look like she is engaging in a pagan ritual, but looks like she is doing tai chi. Most people who practice tai chi and other martial arts do not subscribe to Eastern religious beliefs--it is a form of exercise. I personally wouldn't define doing tai chi as a pagan ritual, unless I knew that the individual involved was doing it as part of a system of pagan beliefs. However, there may be others who feel martial arts are, by definition, pagan rituals (just don't tell Nihil). LOL

[Sarah147]

You made good points that I didn't give much thought. Now jewelry, makeup, fancy clothes -- on a sister? I haven't seen that I don't think, but that's a problem.

Edited July 19, 2010 by JoyfulLife

[MissScripture]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='18 July 2010 - 10:27 PM' timestamp='1279506431' post='2144601']
I haven't decided what I think about religious Orders that don't wear a habit a habit at all, versus those that wear a traditional or modified habit.

Many Orders of Sisters who don't wear habits take the same vows as habited sisters, lead a life totally consecrated to God, etc., with the exception of what they define as a mark of their religious vows (sometimes a small pin, etc.) They have their own reasons for not wearing a traditional habit, one of which is that the clothing we think of as a habit today was actually peasant dress centuries ago. I can see pros and cons of this.

In the U.S., it is hard for an Order to adopt some kind of contemporary dressing like the poor. With an Order like the the Missionaries of Charity, the Sisters wear a habit, but their sari is little different from the sari that a poor woman would wear in India. We don't really have that in the U.S.

Allthough I see it as less than ideal, I have less of a problem with Orders who don't wear a habit for whatever reason, but who dress in very plain, simple, clothes, wear no jewelry except maybe a watch, wear their hair in simple styles, don't wear make-up, etc. And, at least some of these Orders wear some type of habit or robe in chapel. After all, the Jesuits do not wear a habit in public, or normally even in chapel, although they usually do wear secular religious-type garb, similar to what Diocesan priests wear, such as a Roman collar. While some Catholics may not like some things they teach, the Jesuits are still a "real" Order, despite their lack of a habit.

It's when I see Orders of Sisters wearing bright clothes, sometimes wearing make-up, wearing expensive hair styles, etc. that I start to wonder. None of those things seem to fit the vows of a religious Sister.

But, unfortunately, we can't judge a Sister by her habit, because there are habited Orders that are not in obedience to the Pope.

So, each Order and Community has to be looked at individually--a painstaking process.

Just a note: The Sister in the photo in the post above doesn't look like she is engaging in a pagan ritual, but looks like she is doing tai chi. Most people who practice tai chi and other martial arts do not subscribe to Eastern religious beliefs--it is a form of exercise. I personally wouldn't define doing tai chi as a pagan ritual, unless I knew that the individual involved was doing it as part of a system of pagan beliefs. However, there may be others who feel martial arts are, by definition, pagan rituals (just don't tell Nihil). LOL
[/quote]
A note on your note: Just a heads up that there have been numerous threads on yoga and the like that have been hotly debated here on if they are or are not able to be done soley for exercise purposes. I think you're safe on VS, but on other parts of the phorum, you may end up starting a debate.

To the rest of your post: It seems what you're saying is that you think that sisters should be able to be somewhat identifiable as sisters (correct me if I'm wrong). I totally agree.
A "theme" I've noticed is that in the orders that I've seen that do not wear a habit, the older sisters (who most likely started out in a habit) are fairly easily identified as sisters, both by the way they dress and the way they carry themselves. I can tell them apart from other women of their age group. As they get younger (30s-40s and early to mid 50s) they seem to dress more and more like any woman of their age group (though, they keep themselves better covered than some women tend to), but it's a lot of t-shirts and jeans or sweat pants sort of thing. Not really anything that makes them LOOK like a sister. And that bothers me. Now, that's probably just as much my problem as their problem, but I do associate that dress with a certain attitude that I have been given from some who dress that way that isn't exactly what you would hope for from a Bride of Christ. (Which I'm sure you probably get from sisters who wear habits, too, but I have been far less exposed to them, so I don't know.) All in all, I feel like you SHOULD be able to identify people by their clothing. I know that I dress differently now that I am married than I did when I was single (not that I dressed wildly or anything like that...now it's just much more feminine and I consciously pick out things that I know my husband likes, such as skirts and stuff like that). And I guess that it sort of comes down to what I said about my husband liking my clothes. They should be dressing for Christ, since He is their husband, not for the world (including what I would like them to wear. ).

Anyway, I think I just used a lot of words to say very little...lol, sorry!

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='MissScripture' date='18 July 2010 - 09:49 PM' timestamp='1279507771' post='2144608']
A note on your note: Just a heads up that there have been numerous threads on yoga and the like that have been hotly debated here on if they are or are not able to be done soley for exercise purposes. I think you're safe on VS, but on other parts of the phorum, you may end up starting a debate.

To the rest of your post: It seems what you're saying is that you think that sisters should be able to be somewhat identifiable as sisters (correct me if I'm wrong). I totally agree.
A "theme" I've noticed is that in the orders that I've seen that do not wear a habit, the older sisters (who most likely started out in a habit) are fairly easily identified as sisters, both by the way they dress and the way they carry themselves. I can tell them apart from other women of their age group. As they get younger (30s-40s and early to mid 50s) they seem to dress more and more like any woman of their age group (though, they keep themselves better covered than some women tend to), but it's a lot of t-shirts and jeans or sweat pants sort of thing. Not really anything that makes them LOOK like a sister. And that bothers me. Now, that's probably just as much my problem as their problem, but I do associate that dress with a certain attitude that I have been given from some who dress that way that isn't exactly what you would hope for from a Bride of Christ. (Which I'm sure you probably get from sisters who wear habits, too, but I have been far less exposed to them, so I don't know.) All in all, I feel like you SHOULD be able to identify people by their clothing. I know that I dress differently now that I am married than I did when I was single (not that I dressed wildly or anything like that...now it's just much more feminine and I consciously pick out things that I know my husband likes, such as skirts and stuff like that). And I guess that it sort of comes down to what I said about my husband liking my clothes. They should be dressing for Christ, since He is their husband, not for the world (including what I would like them to wear. [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/lol.gif[/img]).

Anyway, I think I just used a lot of words to say very little...lol, sorry!
[/quote]

Thanks for the warning on martial arts. I don't do martial arts, so I've never given any thought to it either way. Since I know that Nihil is quite thoughtful about his behavior, and he is quite Orthodox in his beliefs, I figure he doesn't feel martial arts are pagan. Even without knowing his interest in martial arts, I feel the same way too. But, if I see a debate thread on martial arts, I'll avoid it, because, to me, it's not worth taking the time to debate.

I think you summarized the issues very well. There might be times when habited Sisters/nuns would wear jeans for practical reasons. For example, I've read about a Trappistine Order that wears "work clothes" such as jeans when they are doing certain types of manual labor (although they keep their heads covered), but wear habits at all other times. That just seems practical to me. And, they are cloistered, so it is not as if they are likely to be seen by many nonreligious people when then are working. (There are probably other Orders that do this, as well.)

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

[quote name='JoyfulLife' date='18 July 2010 - 09:39 PM' timestamp='1279507182' post='2144605']
You made good points that I didn't give much thought. Now jewelry, makeup, fancy clothes -- on a sister? I haven't seen that I don't think, but that's a problem.
[/quote]

There ARE Orders that wear make-up, although I can't think of any names off the bat. My guess is that they don't wear extreme make-up, but to me, a religious sister or nun wearing any make-up at all doesn't fit with a woman consecrated to God.

I have also heard of Orders that smoke. To me, that also doesn't seem like the behavior of a woman consecrated to God. If nothing else, it seems to fly in the face of the vow of poverty, since cigarettes are so expensive.

[truthfinder]

[quote name='JoyfulLife' date='18 July 2010 - 06:19 PM' timestamp='1279498749' post='2144535']


Another thing that really bugged me was a nice Marian order [url="http://schsrsmary.org"]http://schsrsmary.org[/url] that turns out to NOT take the three vows! Pull my hair out, will you?



[/quote]


These sisters are more correctly labelled a secular institute, and this was the way they were founded in the mid-20s. So in one regard it may be disappointing that one is not vowed as a bride of Christ, you got to really admire the sisters who stick around even when they have the chance to leave.

[MissScripture]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' date='18 July 2010 - 11:10 PM' timestamp='1279509037' post='2144633']
Thanks for the warning on martial arts. I don't do martial arts, so I've never given any thought to it either way. Since I know that Nihil is quite thoughtful about his behavior, and he is quite Orthodox in his beliefs, I figure he doesn't feel martial arts are pagan. Even without knowing his interest in martial arts, I feel the same way too. But, if I see a debate thread on martial arts, I'll avoid it, because, to me, it's not worth taking the time to debate.

I think you summarized the issues very well. There might be times when habited Sisters/nuns would wear jeans for practical reasons. For example, I've read about a Trappistine Order that wears "work clothes" such as jeans when they are doing certain types of manual labor (although they keep their heads covered), but wear habits at all other times. That just seems practical to me. And, they are cloistered, so it is not as if they are likely to be seen by many nonreligious people when then are working. (There are probably other Orders that do this, as well.)
[/quote]
I figured a little warning was the least I could do, in light of the nonsense on open mic. That, and I've wasted too much time reading them. But now I'm , so I'll .

[sistersintigo]

[quote name='krissylou' date='13 July 2010 - 10:42 AM' timestamp='1279028531' post='2142014']
I started my working life in an obscenely high paying job -- and was really worried about "golden handcuffs" (where you get used to a high salary and then cannot give it up) as I was pretty sure I didn't want to stay on that track forever.

I can report that the golden handcuffs do ensnare a lot of people -- but there are also tons that resist them -- that deliberately use their salary to pay down their student loans, to save up a down payment for a house (NOT to support high mortgage payments), that establish a firm financial foundation for themselves and then are quite free indeed to take a much lower paying job.

It CAN be done! It happens all the time.

You won't be saving up for a house down payment, but you can be darn motivated about paying down your loans and giving yourself freedom that way. With that goal in mind, I bet you'll be able to keep materialism at bay.
[/quote]
This.

[TeresaBenedicta]

Happy Feast of St. Mary Magdalene!!!!

I [i]loved[/i] today's readings! The parallel between the Song of Songs and the Gospel passage struck me quite a bit, the heartfelt searching for "the one whom my heart loves" and after much searching and much grief, finding Him.

[Cherie]

[quote name='TeresaBenedicta' date='22 July 2010 - 04:27 PM' timestamp='1279830452' post='2146389']
Happy Feast of St. Mary Magdalene!!!!

I [i]loved[/i] today's readings! The parallel between the Song of Songs and the Gospel passage struck me quite a bit, the heartfelt searching for "the one whom my heart loves" and after much searching and much grief, finding Him.
[/quote]

I love St. Mary Magdalene - she was my third choice for a religious name

Did any of you know that the Dominicans celebrate her feast as an actual Feast Day (and not just a memorial, as it is on the universal calendar)? It's because the Dominicans are in charge of her shrine in France. Awesome!

Edited July 22, 2010 by CherieMadame