Carrie Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 [quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Sep 14 2005, 11:27 AM']Can we ask a moderator to move this to debate where it belongs? [right][snapback]722873[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Agreed. and away to debate it goessss .... Az Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 [quote name='Carrie' date='Sep 14 2005, 09:31 AM']Agreed. and away to debate it goessss .... Az [right][snapback]722876[/snapback][/right] [/quote] [quote name='Carrie' date='Sep 14 2005, 09:31 AM']Let's just say I'm a Carrie-ist. We can blame all my faults on that. : I don't know enough about what you're saying about being considered a legal adult once married, regardless of age. Also, we don't do curfews here, so I wouldn't know about being exepmt from those also when married, regardless of age. I'm going to have to look that up. (see, I can admit when I'm unsure of something). [right][snapback]722875[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I'm not saying it's a fault just a matter of argument.... I will confess to occasionally dipping into the relativist pie for retorical purposes, but not often, and only when I'm sure I am debating with a relativist who therefore, most likely, won't catch me. But this is a serious matter, pedophilia is not a trivial thing to me and I assure you I would never be defending someone I thought as a pedophile-- I think child rape should be a capital crime ( but in practice I think that would be virtually impossible to justly enforce, mores the pity) but I think that people are way to quick to dismiss the capability of your average 12 year old and way way to fast to dismiss the capability of your average 14 year old. 14 year olds fight wars and raise families all over the world, why our our children so pitiful as to be incapable of doing those same things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 I agree that he should work and support his wife and child rather than be locked up. He DID do the responsible thing and marry her and is providing for her. What in world would it do to lock him up? Not all of societies laws are right and just, but the law of God should take precedance. While I agree he shouldn't have done what he did (at least he should wait until she was 16 to persue her), at this point I don't want him locked up and using my taxes to pay for the mom and childs welfare and his incarceration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 I also wonder if it is a good thing that children are 'children' longer today? That people typically don't 'mature' until early 20's, if they ever do mature? I wonder if we should enact a law that everyone who turns 18 should do 2 years of military service (excepting conditions where this would not be appropriate such as mental retardation or medical handicap)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oik Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 [quote]"Right now there isn't anything that I love more than my wife and my daughter."[/quote] It's hard to decipher any subjective reality from this statement. It this sincere or not? [quote]Matthew and Crystal were married on May 3, in Kansas, one of the few states that allows children as young as 12 to marry with parental consent. Guyer filed to revoke the restraining order on May 5, 2005, citing her reason as, "Matthew and Crystal Guyer are married now."[/quote] I think that if they are married in kansas, maybe they should move there. Someone knew the rules in Nebraska and in Kansas, was it the two kids or thier parents, or both? [quote]"We cannot allow grown men to have sex with children even if the parents think it is right, because the grown man thinks it is right and the child thinks it is right," Bruning said. "Society doesn't think it is right."[/quote] True and True. This expresses a deeper reality. Does the activity of the two minors fully respect the dignity of the human person? No. The activity is deplorable. The state of Kansas has recognized the marriage. I'm sure on the certificate they listed thier home address in Nebraska. I'm also sure that the people issuing the certificate and the judge wasn't a ware of the law in Nebraska. If he was, this presents an particular legal State versus State isssue. [quote]Matthew Koso, who has attention deficit disorder and other learning disabilities, pleaded not guilty to the first-degree sexual assault charge, and his trial is set to begin in November. He was released on $5,000 bond in time for the birth of his daughter, Samara, on Aug. 24.[/quote] ADD (over-diagnised) and other learning disabilities (whatever that means) are of little importance in this matter, why bring it up? [quote]In Nebraska, sex between an adult and a person younger than 16 is considered statutory rape, whether the couple is married or not.[/quote] This the law, it is binding to the citizens of the state of Nebraska. The question is, is someone who is 20 an adult? I do have a particular problem with charging a person for an adult crime if they were a minor when they commited it. [quote]"The people judging, like the attorney general, don't know me," Crystal said. "I can make these decisions. I know what I want, and if I'm willing to take the consequences, then I should be able to decide what I want."[/quote] Clearly, she can not make these decisions, neither by law or judging de facto her statements and immatire actions. I an not a competent authority in judicial matters. Should he go to jail for 50 years? No. Should he be tried as a minor since he was a minor when the law was violated? Yes. A nother point is that we must, if looking at this from a legal perspective, be willing to accept as just the dismissal of the case (and/or charges). If however, we want to judge this from a moral perspective that is fine by me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oik Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 [quote]When I worked in the teen mom's program, we had an 11 year old who had a baby. She kept the little girl and lived with her parents. It was ... scary to see her with the child.[/quote] Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oik Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 [quote]That's just three years older than my daughter (who still plays with dolls, for crying out loud)... If anyone touches her, HSdad would probably kill him.[/quote] Good, that's what he should be ready to do if that were to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oik Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 [quote]A grown man having sexual relations with a child under the age of 13 is considered pedophilia.[/quote] I agree. Wouldn't you say that there is a differece in that situation and the situation of a imaature 20 year old? I would say that this young man is not a grown adult, wouldn't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zabbazooey Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 :puke: This is gross. It IS rape, no matter how you slice it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toledo_jesus Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 Were this a [u]different culture[/u], perhaps the marriage and the relationship would be valid. However, our culture does [b]not[/b] allow for this type of thing. While physically able to reproduce, a 12 year old [b]in this country[/b] is still a child. Therefore, whether she wanted this or not, this is rape according to the mores of [i]our[/i] culture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totus Tuus Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 [quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='Sep 13 2005, 10:19 PM']This hasn't changed. But while it mentions 14 years old, it actually says she must be past her fourteenth year, in other words 15 or older. But the canon also says that the local practice should conform to the cultural and legal norms of the area. [right][snapback]722451[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Yes, girls have to have "completed their fourteenth year" and boys their sixteenth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 natural law strongly indicates that we should be raising and preparing children to be ready for marriage and children as close to the time of their sexual maturity as possible. it is simply contrary to nature to prolong any further than necessary the time between sexual maturity and marriage. on this our culture and legal system transgresses on the natural law and it has caused a lot of the sexual immaturity, promiscuity, and rampant divorce our culutre is so famous for. that said, I'm not sure the intentions of this man in his initial sexual encounter with this 12 year old. however, it is not 'rape', though it could be a case of pedophilia/perversion depending on what the intentions of this man were. the marriage of two people of such ages is not at all morally objectionable though. our culture is incorrect here. (yes, cultures can be INCORRECT about things) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 But Al... as Don John points out, physical maturation for girls is getting younger and younger. A century or so ago, girls weren't fully mature until 16 or so on average. Now it's like ten! There is no way that you are going to convince me that it is right for ten year olds to be married. That's just not right no matter how you deal the cards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ora et Labora Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 First of all, isnt rape when you are forced through it? It didnt seem like she was. And, she looked like she wanted to get married. But it is really wierd! Only ten years apart, but in this case WAY to young! And if they are married and have a kid......this is hard to figure out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ora et Labora Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 [quote name='homeschoolmom' date='Sep 14 2005, 12:10 PM']But Al... as Don John points out, physical maturation for girls is getting younger and younger. A century or so ago, girls weren't fully mature until 16 or so on average. Now it's like ten! There is no way that you are going to convince me that it is right for ten year olds to be married. That's just not right no matter how you deal the cards. [right][snapback]723086[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Shes right...there is NO way you can convince me either that 10 years old is mature! I didnt start to really mature untill 14! Kristina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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