Oik Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 [quote]The cultural norm and laws of the United States are the only ones we should be concerned about. A 12 year old girl was raped by a 20 year old man. He was legal adult and his ass should go to jail. Just because he married her after doesn't excuse him raping her. He should go to jail until she turns 18, and is an legal adult herself. [/quote] Agreed. The mother should go to juvenile prison until she is legal age. The baby should be put in a foster hom and should be a ward of the State. After all, what judge would give the infant to a man in porison. If I was the guy, i'd just sue the mother for custody since I am legally mature adult at the age of 18. That's what my 'ass' would be doing in my case. -OR- A girl doesn't seduce, only women seduce, right? So this is not a matter of seduction. Is this clearly a matter of the pervert (wierdo, socially immature) adult man preying on an innocent pre-teen? I say that it is not and there is more to it than that. Also, what seems to be the motive of the state or city or whatever in this case? Why bring charges? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Sep 14 2005, 01:54 PM']The cultural norm and laws of the United States are the only ones we should be concerned about. A 12 year old girl was raped by a 20 year old man. He was legal adult and his ass should go to jail. Just because he married her after doesn't excuse him raping her. He should go to jail until she turns 18, and is an legal adult herself. [right][snapback]723216[/snapback][/right] [/quote] If you contend that he should be tried for statory rape then that is your right however please say " he commited statutory rape and should be punished" but do not say " he raped a 12 year old girl" because he did not do that, not by our cultures traditional definition of rape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oik Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 (edited) [quote]State age to wed could change Kansas, like many states, has set no minimum age for marriage. Some lawmakers want to change that. BY STAN FINGER The Wichita Eagle Local legislators say they want to revisit the state's marriage law after a 22-year-old Nebraska man brought his pregnant 13-year-old girlfriend to Kansas to marry her. Matthew Koso of Falls City, Neb., has been charged with having sex with an underage girl. And Nebraska Attorney General Jon Bruning last week called the Kansas law permitting the marriage ridiculous. Kansas Rep. Don Myers, R-Derby, used the same word for the law. He said he did not realize it set no minimum age for marriage. "I'll bet it's one of the first things we look at when we go back into session," Myers said. "I think we'll probably jump right on that one." Rep. Jo Ann Pottorff, R-Wichita, said she was shocked to learn a 13-year-old girl could marry in Kansas. "I'm sure we'll be looking at something next session," she said. Kansas is among more than 40 states without a mandatory minimum age for marriage. But being part of a large crowd didn't make startled lawmakers any happier. Only about half a dozen states have set minimum ages for marriage. Five girls under the age of 15 got married in Kansas in 2003, the most recent year for which data is available. Three were married in 2002, and six were married in 2001, according to statistics compiled by the Kansas Department of Health and Environment. Every state requires children under the age of 18 to obtain outside consent -- from parents, guardians or a court -- before they can marry. Kansas requires the consent of at least one parent or guardian and a judge, or all living parents and guardians, for a marriage license to be granted to someone under 18. But child services officials question whether current law goes far enough. "How old are these laws?" asked Vickie McArthur, director of prevention and community services for the Kansas Children's Service League. "Historically, people married at a much younger age, before we really had an adolescence. "When life expectancy was lower, you were thrown into a working life and married life much sooner.... That's not where we are today." Kansas first passed a marriage law in 1867, six years after becoming a state and two years after the Civil War ended. It has been amended several times since, most recently in 1996. Rep. Jim Ward, D-Wichita, said Kansas has traditionally relied on parents to know what's best for their kids. "But now, with the way things are, we might have to take a look at that and see if we don't need a mandatory minimum," Ward said. "I don't think that we trust parents less now. There are so many things going on that any tools that we can have to help parents, we want to make sure that we do. "As times change, as stresses on families change... then the law changes, too." Protection of minors Nebraska prohibits anyone under 17 from marrying. Koso was ordered by a judge last year to stay away from the girl. He was a friend of her half-brother, and they began a relationship when she was 12. Richardson County Judge Curtis Maschman issued the protection order Sept. 29 against Koso at the request of the girl's mother. But after the girl became pregnant, her mother gave permission for Koso to take her to Kansas to marry her in May. The girl is now 14 and is expected to begin high school following the anticipated birth of the baby in August, according to the Omaha World-Herald. Bruning charged Koso on Monday with first-degree sexual assault, punishable by up to 50 years in prison. He was released on bail pending an Aug. 17 preliminary hearing in Richardson County Court. "He should have been charged," said Walter Thiessen, executive director at the Wichita Child Guidance Center. "It's statutory rape whether he gets married or not." Under Kansas law, a girl under the age of 16 cannot consent to having sex -- unless she is married. That has prompted some troubling conversations at the guidance center with girls who are involved with adults, Thiessen said. "We've heard that before... 'Can we get around it by just getting married?' " he said. The answer is "no." "We tell them, 'You weren't married when you had the sex. The older person still broke the law,' " Thiessen said. He has many questions as he reflects on the issue of minors getting married, Thiessen said, but few answers. "How do we protect our young people?" he asked. "What do we do not to encourage this kind of behavior?" Parental responsibility McArthur, of the Kansas Children's Service League, said the real question is, "is it the law that needs to dictate this or is it the culture and parental responsibility? "I'm not sure that it's the law that's going to prevent this from happening." When she learned of the Nebraska couple, she said, she asked herself, "How did the child get to the point that it was OK to be dating this 22-year-old, and once she got pregnant, that the parents saw this as the solution?" Some constituents may not like the Legislature messing with the marriage bill as a matter of principle, Ward said, and he understands that. "We don't want the state interfering with the parent-child relationship if we don't have to," he said. Rep. Judith Loganbill, D-Wichita, said she expects any debate over the marriage law to languish on the back burner while the Legislature wrestles with the budget and school finance. But she still considers it worthwhile. "It raises a whole lot of questions," she said. But that's probably a good thing, she said. "Maybe it's a can of worms that needed to be opened." Contributing: Associated Press[/quote] Edited September 14, 2005 by Oik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skellmeyer Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 [quote name='Brother Adam' date='Sep 14 2005, 11:43 AM']I also wonder if it is a good thing that children are 'children' longer today? That people typically don't 'mature' until early 20's, if they ever do mature? I wonder if we should enact a law that everyone who turns 18 should do 2 years of military service (excepting conditions where this would not be appropriate such as mental retardation or medical handicap)? [right][snapback]722950[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Look, the whole idea of adolescence was created in about 1904. It didn't exist prior to that time. Adolescence is not something that can be rooted out of this society. Capitalism is built on the concept. In a capitalist society, the point of business is to separate you from your money as quickly as possible. The easiest way to do that is to make sure you stay emotionally, intellectually and spiritually immature. Immature people spend a lot more money than mature, stable adults do. So, the entire focus of our society is maintaining people in an immature state for as long as possible. The schools are designed to make people life-long apprentices, needy, obedient to secular authority and separated from their families. The magazines, the news media, all the rest of it works by keeping you in a constant state of fear. Scared people buy more stuff than people who aren't scared. I've got a book on this coming out called "Deception: Catholic Education in America" that chronicles exactly how this mindset deceived the American bishops into developing a parochial school system that was inadvertently built to fail from its inception (www.bridegroompress.com). It will be out by the first week of October, if the index gets finished this week. I've already got raves on it from a couple of rather prominent Catholics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
son_of_angels Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 Look, you people are nuts. This type of thinking allows us to discredit the institution of marriage altogether. For better or worse, they're married, end of discussion. They have comitted no crime which is intrinsically harmful to society, and by their marriage are living in the life designated for parents by God. The child deserves a father and a mother, not just any father and mother, not the BEST father and mother, but HIS father and mother. If they live in accordance with God's plan for marriage, they will be a great gift for God in their charity for one another. If, however, we are willing, without good cause, to separate a family, break up a marriage, distort our understanding of life and the family past the breaking point just to conform to human traditions and superstitions, we destroy the fabric of our faith. There is no hatred, no loneliness, no deprivation now, why should we create it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 [quote name='son_of_angels' date='Sep 14 2005, 03:54 PM']Look, you people are nuts. This type of thinking allows us to discredit the institution of marriage altogether. For better or worse, they're married, end of discussion. They have comitted no crime which is intrinsically harmful to society, and by their marriage are living in the life designated for parents by God. The child deserves a father and a mother, not just any father and mother, not the BEST father and mother, but HIS father and mother. If they live in accordance with God's plan for marriage, they will be a great gift for God in their charity for one another. If, however, we are willing, without good cause, to separate a family, break up a marriage, distort our understanding of life and the family past the breaking point just to conform to human traditions and superstitions, we destroy the fabric of our faith. There is no hatred, no loneliness, no deprivation now, why should we create it? [right][snapback]723411[/snapback][/right] [/quote] /sign Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avemaria40 Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 Even if girls physically mature faster, they doesn't mean they mature emotionally and spiritually at the same time. I started puberty at the age of 9, does that mean i should be married for 7 years and with children right now? I don't think i'm as emotionally mature as i should be and i didn't start to spiritually mature until i was about 13. Even though i'm 16 and developed, does not mean that i should be married and having children. And i don't think the mother should be put in juvenile jail. I think that the husband should have some form of punishment but he should also support his child and his wife. I think that it is important that the baby be raised in a stable home rather than go into foster homes her whole childhood and she should have both a mother and a father. I know ppl who are single moms (though they are much older) and it's a struggle to raise children by themselves and work, and try to finish an education. this girl is trying to be responsible, she is completing school and taking care of her little daughter. I can't even begin to imagine what that must be like! I think babysitting my brother for 3 hours every day wears me out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 (edited) [quote name='avemaria40' date='Sep 14 2005, 04:13 PM']Even if girls physically mature faster, they doesn't mean they mature emotionally and spiritually at the same time. I started puberty at the age of 9, does that mean i should be married for 7 years and with children right now? I don't think i'm as emotionally mature as i should be and i didn't start to spiritually mature until i was about 13. Even though i'm 16 and developed, does not mean that i should be married and having children. And i don't think the mother should be put in juvenile jail. I think that the husband should have some form of punishment but he should also support his child and his wife. I think that it is important that the baby be raised in a stable home rather than go into foster homes her whole childhood and she should have both a mother and a father. I know ppl who are single moms (though they are much older) and it's a struggle to raise children by themselves and work, and try to finish an education. this girl is trying to be responsible, she is completing school and taking care of her little daughter. I can't even begin to imagine what that must be like! I think babysitting my brother for 3 hours every day wears me out. [right][snapback]723441[/snapback][/right] [/quote] should you be married now, I really am not fit to judge that, but you sshould certianly be able to marry now. If you are as you say physically and spiritually and emotionally mature. Edit: people should not act as if ou are incompetant just because you are 16. Edited September 14, 2005 by Don John of Austria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avemaria40 Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 (edited) Teen girls should finish school and get some life experience. In our culture, girls arent as mature yet, and we're not even done with our education. I think education is necessary, so we can get jobs to help take care of our families, or at the very least use our gifts to raise our children well. If a teen girl gets married and has a baby too young, she doesn't always get the education and experience she needs. And marriage is a really big step, one that should wait until maturity and life experience are achieved Edited September 14, 2005 by avemaria40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don John of Austria Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 [quote name='avemaria40' date='Sep 14 2005, 04:20 PM']I'm not even finished with high school yet, i don't know what life in the real world is like! life experience should be necessary so that if God sees fit to bless me with children, i'll know how to raise them and how to teach them how to live, and to love my husband the way he should be loved. There is absolutely no reason for me to be married right now. And there actually evidence saying that sexually active teen girls are more likely to get STD's because a teen girls body isn't developed to the point where it can prevent infections because she's not that grown up yet. [right][snapback]723451[/snapback][/right] [/quote] teen girls who are sleeping around are more likly to get VD not teen married women, and I really doubt that it has anything to do with her body's development, 17 - 19 is biologically speaking the perfect age to have children for a women. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avemaria40 Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 biologically, yes, but how many 17-19 year old teen girls do you know who are emotionally, and spiritually mature enough to get married and have babies? may be if our culture was different yes, but these young women in our culture have just barely finished high school education and are experiencing the taste of freedom for the first time in their lives. i know that in her teens if a woman has a baby, and also, if she decides to nurse the infant, that she will be less likely to get breast cancer, but she can get the same benefits if she married and had babies in her twenties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skellmeyer Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 [quote name='son_of_angels' date='Sep 14 2005, 04:54 PM']Look, you people are nuts. This type of thinking allows us to discredit the institution of marriage altogether. For better or worse, they're married, end of discussion. They have comitted no crime which is intrinsically harmful to society, and by their marriage are living in the life designated for parents by God. The child deserves a father and a mother, not just any father and mother, not the BEST father and mother, but HIS father and mother. If they live in accordance with God's plan for marriage, they will be a great gift for God in their charity for one another. If, however, we are willing, without good cause, to separate a family, break up a marriage, distort our understanding of life and the family past the breaking point just to conform to human traditions and superstitions, we destroy the fabric of our faith. There is no hatred, no loneliness, no deprivation now, why should we create it? [right][snapback]723411[/snapback][/right] [/quote] This is the only reasonable reply in the whole thread. The man is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 [quote name='skellmeyer' date='Sep 14 2005, 04:28 PM']This is the only reasonable reply in the whole thread. The man is right. [right][snapback]723468[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I disagree completely for oh so many reasons First of all Son of Angels inference (and the argument being made by others) is that they were married in a Catholic ceremony. Nowhere in the article is that mentioned nor would they be. No priest would allow this for two reasons 1. She's a baby B. It is no longer the practice of the Church to allow couples to marry immediately if they are pregnant. They must wait until the birth of the baby. This was a civil ceremony I'm sure. There is no "sanctity" of marriage to protect. This is an easy case for civil annullment. Do not infer sacredness on what has none. This is a case of two troubled kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 Don John-- Why the rush to marry off young girls? In a time and place (say, Biblical times) where the life expectancy was say... 40, it was probably wise and prudent to begin family life in ones teens. However, as we have pretty much doubled that life expectancy, why the rush to push people into adulthood?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 [quote name='homeschoolmom' date='Sep 14 2005, 04:47 PM']Don John-- Why the rush to marry off young girls? In a time and place (say, Biblical times) where the life expectancy was say... 40, [right][snapback]723494[/snapback][/right] [/quote] 40? FORTY?!?? AUGGHHHHH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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