How Do Believers Come To Terms With The Glaring Misogyny In The Bible?

[Medic]

You mean human beings treating other human beings like croutons? That's been around since, well, forever.

point taken I suppose my question was more aimed at fundamentalists...but still, If you consider the bible to be the "infallible word of god" and god grants men numerous concubines ...you could say that this deity condones such behavior...

[HisChildForever]

this is totally off subject, but im trying to use my facebook photo as my pic..and its not letting me....what gives?

 

You might have to reformat the size of the picture. Or upload the picture from your computer.

[Medic]

You might have to reformat the size of the picture. Or upload the picture from your computer.

thank you it worked :)

[HisChildForever]

point taken I suppose my question was more aimed at fundamentalists...but still, If you consider the bible to be the "infallible word of god" and god grants men numerous concubines ...you could say that this deity condones such behavior...

 

There aren't any fundamentalist Christians on Phatmass (that I know of). But you know what, you just made me remember something. I've asked similar questions like yours before, looking for explanations about Old Testament passages that just didn't sit right with me. And I remember one response in particular that was really helpful. Let me give an analogy first. When you're a kid, say 10, you're not generally ready to hear adult conversations or topics - the ongoing troubles of a relative, the "birds and the bees," whatever. But when you're older, more mature, when you can look back and see where you came from, you're ready.

 

I think that's generally the idea of the Old Testament. We're looking at the beginnings of humanity, essentially. I mean, God only spared Noah and his family in the flood. Children and babies were lumped in with the men and women that angered God. Even though there were innocents, the world wasn't spared. But then we have Abraham in the very same book (Genesis) basically bargaining with God. Genesis 18: 20-32. He says - if there's 50 innocent people in the city (Sodom and Gomorrah), would you still destroy it? And God says no. It gets to the point where Abraham says okay, what about just 10 innocent people? Would you still destroy the entire city? And God says no, for their sake, I wouldn't. So...why this change? And why didn't Noah so boldly bargain with God the way Abraham did? It's an evolution of humanity, and God's relationship with humanity.

[Winchester]

The leaders of the Church have often been incredible bastards.

 

 

Quinn looks a little like Black Francis. That's extremely cool.

[Medic]

There aren't any fundamentalist Christians on Phatmass (that I know of). But you know what, you just made me remember something. I've asked similar questions like yours before, looking for explanations about Old Testament passages that just didn't sit right with me. And I remember one response in particular that was really helpful. Let me give an analogy first. When you're a kid, say 10, you're not generally ready to hear adult conversations or topics - the ongoing troubles of a relative, the "birds and the bees," whatever. But when you're older, more mature, when you can look back and see where you came from, you're ready.

 

I think that's generally the idea of the Old Testament. We're looking at the beginnings of humanity, essentially. I mean, God only spared Noah and his family in the flood. Children and babies were lumped in with the men and women that angered God. Even though there were innocents, the world wasn't spared. But then we have Abraham in the very same book (Genesis) basically bargaining with God. Genesis 18: 20-32. He says - if there's 50 innocent people in the city (Sodom and Gomorrah), would you still destroy it? And God says no. It gets to the point where Abraham says okay, what about just 10 innocent people? Would you still destroy the entire city? And God says no, for their sake, I wouldn't. So...why this change? And why didn't Noah so boldly bargain with God the way Abraham did? It's an evolution of humanity, and God's relationship with humanity.

ok....so how do you consider that benevolence? how is a god....any god that kills....be considered benevolent?

[Medic]

I can understand the change between the old testament god who was jealous, wrathful and eager to kill for the slightest transgression into the soft cuddly more huggable deity in the new testament ( they were trying to gain more converts)  It would also be interesting to note that initially Christianity did acknowledge the existence of other gods...polytheism was still a main stay in early Christianity....doesn't that lean toward the conclusion that all these deities are made up? Or is it just me? For instance.....the old testament god was jealous, wrathful. eager to kill just like the primitive peoples that concocted this deity, they were the same way....superstitious...war-like....barbaric....would it be such a stretch to say the Judeo-Christian deity is all a fabrication in the mind of primitive desert dwelling people?

[Medic]

There aren't any fundamentalist Christians on Phatmass (that I know of). But you know what, you just made me remember something. I've asked similar questions like yours before, looking for explanations about Old Testament passages that just didn't sit right with me. And I remember one response in particular that was really helpful. Let me give an analogy first. When you're a kid, say 10, you're not generally ready to hear adult conversations or topics - the ongoing troubles of a relative, the "birds and the bees," whatever. But when you're older, more mature, when you can look back and see where you came from, you're ready.

 

I think that's generally the idea of the Old Testament. We're looking at the beginnings of humanity, essentially. I mean, God only spared Noah and his family in the flood. Children and babies were lumped in with the men and women that angered God. Even though there were innocents, the world wasn't spared. But then we have Abraham in the very same book (Genesis) basically bargaining with God. Genesis 18: 20-32. He says - if there's 50 innocent people in the city (Sodom and Gomorrah), would you still destroy it? And God says no. It gets to the point where Abraham says okay, what about just 10 innocent people? Would you still destroy the entire city? And God says no, for their sake, I wouldn't. So...why this change? And why didn't Noah so boldly bargain with God the way Abraham did? It's an evolution of humanity, and God's relationship with humanity.

I do have to correct you on one thing. there were civilizations and religions that far outdated Judaism and Christianity, Most of Christian holiday's and bible stories were taken from pre-existing pagan rituals and observances ie. the epic of Gilgamesh, Egyptian mythology, Mithra, the winter solstice and the spring equinox. etc .etc.

[Amppax]

I do have to correct you on one thing. there were civilizations and religions that far outdated Judaism and Christianity, Most of Christian holiday's and bible stories were taken from pre-existing pagan rituals and observances ie. the epic of Gilgamesh, Egyptian mythology, Mithra, the winter solstice and the spring equinox. etc .etc.

Sort of. And the fact that other religions pre-date Judeo-Christian religion isn't really relevant to her point.

Also, the fact that the Church (or more specifically men in the Church) has done terrible things doesn't undermine it's authority. I study history, mostly church history, so I'm well aware of the history. My favorite professor puts it pretty well, when she says the only proof she needs of divine inspiration of the church is the fact that an institution with such a flawed history has lasted 2000 years.

[Medic]

Sort of. And the fact that other religions pre-date Judeo-Christian religion isn't really relevant to her point.

Also, the fact that the Church (or more specifically men in the Church) has done terrible things doesn't undermine it's authority. I study history, mostly church history, so I'm well aware of the history. My favorite professor puts it pretty well, when she says the only proof she needs of divine inspiration of the church is the fact that an institution with such a flawed history has lasted 2000 years.

ok I will give you that, but it all depends if you are a young earth creationist....or an old earth creationist, if you want to make the time a religion has existed a contributing factor, because there are still many wiccans running around naked in the woods....does that make them right as well ;)

[Medic]

or perhaps the age of the earth is not even a factor, I should have left that out....my point is still valid

[HisChildForever]

ok....so how do you consider that benevolence? how is a god....any god that kills....be considered benevolent?

 

 

I can understand the change between the old testament god who was jealous, wrathful and eager to kill for the slightest transgression into the soft cuddly more huggable deity in the new testament ( they were trying to gain more converts)  It would also be interesting to note that initially Christianity did acknowledge the existence of other gods...polytheism was still a main stay in early Christianity....doesn't that lean toward the conclusion that all these deities are made up? Or is it just me? For instance.....the old testament god was jealous, wrathful. eager to kill just like the primitive peoples that concocted this deity, they were the same way....superstitious...war-like....barbaric....would it be such a stretch to say the Judeo-Christian deity is all a fabrication in the mind of primitive desert dwelling people?

 

Remember, God declared the Jews His chosen people, and therefore He acted on their behalf.

 

The Old Testament also refers to God as a compassionate, loving God: "Lord, you are good and forgiving, most merciful to all who call on you" (Psalm 86:5). Remember His chosen people: "Since the Lord, your God, is a merciful God, he will not abandon or destroy you, nor forget the covenant with your ancestors that he swore to them" (Deuteronomy 4:31).

 

The Bible does reference other gods, you're right - but doesn't definitely say they exist. The exist in the minds of those who worship them, yes. I mean, we're having a conversation right now about the Christian God, but you don't believe in Him, right? You clearly have no problem talking about something you don't believe exists. So again, God or His people might refer to other gods, but that doesn't mean God/His people are acknowledging those gods as real beings.

 

I do have to correct you on one thing. there were civilizations and religions that far outdated Judaism and Christianity, Most of Christian holiday's and bible stories were taken from pre-existing pagan rituals and observances ie. the epic of Gilgamesh, Egyptian mythology, Mithra, the winter solstice and the spring equinox. etc .etc.

 

I need to clarify my comment - the Old Testament starts with the creation of the world, including mankind. That's what I meant by "we're looking at the beginnings of humanity." I'll be honest with you, I'm really not interested in discussing those theories. If you want to share a credible source that'd be cool, for the sake of whatever.

[Medic]

one tiny question who claimed god made the jews his chosen people?

[HisChildForever]

ok I will give you that, but it all depends if you are a young earth creationist....or an old earth creationist, if you want to make the time a religion has existed a contributing factor, because there are still many wiccans running around naked in the woods....does that make them right as well ;)

 

"Wicca" is a modern religion.

[Medic]

are you really asking me for a source the other religions existed prior to Judaism? that the bible wasn't the first religious text ever written?