Trayvon Martin

[kujo]

[img]http://savingtherepublic.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/trayvon-recent-thug-zimmerman.jpg[/img]

(Dunno if the lewd gesture is gonna got [color=#282828]mod'ed but I thought the point was pretty salient)[/color]

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='kujo' timestamp='1332810748' post='2408946']
Sorry it took me so long to respond to this post...I was vomiting after reading it...
[/quote]

remind me to never send you that care package of bacon and maple syrup

[Mercy me]

[quote name='RezaMikhaeil' timestamp='1332751740' post='2408620']
That is not true. If you see a crime going down, you do have a right to follow the suspect. You don't have to but you do have a right to do so.

You might run but it's highly unlikely that you would attack the person who followed you once they got out of their automobile. As for following someone, that is not an act of aggression according to the law, or the logic behind it. It's still self defense if you are following someone believing that they might be armed and break into someone's house. Particularly if you believe that the police won't be able to prevent the crime from happening.

[/quote]

Watching someone is one thing but as soon as you start following then you are switching to offensive behavior and the person that is being followed switches to a defensive position. Rights have nothing to do with it. Keep pushing someone who is on the defense and you will get one of 2 two reactions fight or flight. From there things can escalate.

There is a great deal that we do not know here. We are learning more but it is important to keep an open mind here. Years ago I heard someone advise to ASSUME POSITIVE INTENT. It was great advise.

[Guest]

You people read your BIBlE and read what a saint is. A saint is a believer. Anyone who makes it to heaven is a saint. The Loving God I know accepted Trayvon into heaven when HE WAS SHOT AND MURDERED. Mabey you and I believe in a different God. Btw Trayvon was baptised and had a Christian Church He was a member to.

Edited March 27, 2012 by Guest

[Guest]

Reza I used the word with an a not er. As do my black friends. Although I don't use the word anymore. And homeschool mom Trayvon was in the wrong place at the wrong time ? Really ? Walking back from the store during the all star game break to the home where he was staying ? Are you being for real ? News flash Martyrs aren't just white people who are catholic. As much as Vatican 2 is hated its pretty clear there are more christians out there then the ones who identify themselves as catholics. I know y'all love George cause he was an alter boy. And I know you think he's the victim here. Poor George.

[Guest]

Homeschool Mom I'm sorry but your comment sums it all up. Trayvon was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Its just like Georges comment that he thought this would blow over. Unreal.

[Guest]

Also people keep blaming the media. I agree the media is shady and I'm not a left wing person. Neither am I right. I hate politcs all together and I think its all scum. But in this case if it wasn't for the media we wouldn't know about this case and how bad the police department messed it up. And if you say they didn't it mess it up at all you're not being honest. Go look at the facts. They took Georges word that he had no prior offences. They didn't do research and find out the truth about him assulting an officer and domesitic disputes. They didn't take a drug or alcohol test. They didn't interview Trayvons girlfriend who he was talking to up until the point he was murdered. The list goes on and on. I have no problem with the media showing younger pics of Trayvon. Who cares. He was still underage. Its fact that his classmates and people who knew him loved him. And said he was a great kid. His mom said he still allowed both her and his father to kiss him in public. So he got busted with an empty bag of marijuana who cares. So he took pics with gold teeth and his p a n t s sagging. Who cares. That does nothing to show his character or make him a worse person. If that's how were going to judge strip me of my militant tag. I used to smoke weed everyday. I sold it to. I dropped out of school and got a g.e.d. I had an underage consumption. I got a dui when I was 22. I can keep going all day. So I hope these people who want to demonise Trayvon bring it on. But that's exactly why his family put out the best stuff reflecting Trayvon right away. And let's be honest they never knew this would blow up the way it has. The reason it has is because people see the injustice and see how much the police department dropped the ball and just tried to cover this up and as George hoped and in his own words let it blow over.

Edited March 27, 2012 by Guest

[Winchester]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' timestamp='1332833140' post='2409056']
Reza I used the word with an a not er. As do my black friends. Although I don't use the word anymore. And homeschool mom Trayvon was in the wrong place at the wrong time ? Really ? Walking back from the store during the all star game break to the home where he was staying ? Are you being for real ? News flash Martyrs aren't just white people who are catholic. As much as Vatican 2 is hated its pretty clear there are more christians out there then the ones who identify themselves as catholics. I know y'all love George cause he was an alter boy. And I know you think he's the victim here. Poor George.
[/quote]

I'm pretty sure Zimmerman didn't ask the kid if he was Christian.

Take a pill, Sally.

[Guest]

Winchester I didn't say zimmerman did. All I said since he was murdered and was an innocent kid this makes him a saint. If he's in heaven he's a saint.

[Guest]

Don't call me sally just call me a ***** if its how you feel. Makes things a lot easier. Be blunt.

[MIKolbe]

got a chuckle out of this
[quote]
After careful consideration of all sides in the national conflagration over the shooting of Trayvon Martin and the massive amount of commentary from people who weren’t, you know, [i]there [/i]and who have no idea what actually happened, but who are urging us all to choose sides and either cheer for the death of a rogue or scream about cold-blooded murder, my thought is this:

Suppose we have an investigation, not in the media and lasting only a minute or two before a verdict is arrived at, but instead use modern police methods for gathering something called “evidence” and “eyewitness testimony”. Just for kicks, let’s appoint both a defense attorney and a prosecutor who can examine this evidence and testimony and make the best arguments possible for the innocence or guilt of the shooter. As an added crazy idea, what if we have a legally qualified judge who knows the laws of Florida to arbitrate the process? And to provide some measure of fairness to the process, what if we appoint a jury of, say, a dozen impartial people with nothing pre-invested in the outcome of the trial to ponder the evidence and decide if it points to the innocence or guilt of the accused? We might even begin with a presumption of innocence on the part of the accused until he is proven guilty, though that is increasingly out of step with our Police State mentality.

It’s just an idea I’ve been noodling as it’s begun to occur to me that TV audiences full of ignorant people adjudicating questions of life and death based on rumors and hearsay may not be the best way to handle such matters.
[/quote]

[kujo]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' timestamp='1332835149' post='2409058']
Also people keep blaming the media. I agree the media is shady and I'm not a left wing person. Neither am I right. I hate politcs all together and I think its all scum. But in this case if it wasn't for the media we wouldn't know about this case and how bad the police department messed it up. And if you say they didn't it mess it up at all you're not being honest. Go look at the facts. They took Georges word that he had no prior offences. They didn't do research and find out the truth about him assulting an officer and domesitic disputes. They didn't take a drug or alcohol test. They didn't interview Trayvons girlfriend who he was talking to up until the point he was murdered. The list goes on and on. I have no problem with the media showing younger pics of Trayvon. Who cares. He was still underage. Its fact that his classmates and people who knew him loved him. And said he was a great kid. His mom said he still allowed both her and his father to kiss him in public. So he got busted with an empty bag of marijuana who cares. So he took pics with gold teeth and his p a n t s sagging. Who cares. That does nothing to show his character or make him a worse person. If that's how were going to judge strip me of my militant tag. I used to smoke weed everyday. I sold it to. I dropped out of school and got a g.e.d. I had an underage consumption. I got a dui when I was 22. I can keep going all day. So I hope these people who want to demonise Trayvon bring it on. But that's exactly why his family put out the best stuff reflecting Trayvon right away. And let's be honest they never knew this would blow up the way it has. The reason it has is because people see the injustice and see how much the police department dropped the ball and just tried to cover this up and as George hoped and in his own words let it blow over.
[/quote]

I've said it all along--there is a story we're being SOLD here. All the character assassinations, all the 5-7 year old pictures we're being shown, all the race-baiting and "outrage" they're showing us...they (the media) are clearly trying to make us believe something. And when was the last time you've trusted them to report accurately, without bias?

[Adrestia]

I think Kujo has a point when it comes to Zimmerman's motives. However, if the cops did their job there would be no debate. The law doesn't say that cops shouldn't investigate a killing if a person claims self-defense.

[Guest]

Ya exactly and that's why Mikolbes article is not fair. If the police did their job the first time there wouldn't be this outrage.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' timestamp='1332833140' post='2409056']
Reza I used the word with an a not er. As do my black friends. Although I don't use the word anymore. And homeschool mom Trayvon was in the wrong place at the wrong time ? Really ? Walking back from the store during the all star game break to the home where he was staying ? Are you being for real ? News flash Martyrs aren't just white people who are catholic. As much as Vatican 2 is hated its pretty clear there are more christians out there then the ones who identify themselves as catholics. I know y'all love George cause he was an alter boy. And I know you think he's the victim here. Poor George.
[/quote]
Are you suggesting that Trayvon was in the right place at the right time? I didn't say he was wrong for walking down the street in his dad's neighborhood or that being shot was his fault. Sometimes people who end up dead do so because of things like being in the wrong place (a dark neighborhood in a gated community) at the wrong time (when a guy with a gun is out looking for criminals). Sheesh.

Here's a tip: Look up the word "martyr" in the dictionary. It doesn't mean: Innocent person dead. It means: A [b]martyr[/b] ([url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language"]Greek[/url]: μάρτυς, [i]mártys[/i], "witness"; [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Word_stem"]stem[/url] μάρτυρ-, [i]mártyr-[/i]) is somebody who suffers [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution"]persecution[/url] and death for refusing to renounce, or accept, a belief or cause, usually religious.

What exact belief did Trayvon refuse to deny that caused him to be martyred?

[Anomaly]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' timestamp='1332850838' post='2409090']
Ya exactly and that's why Mikolbes article is not fair. If the police did their job the first time there wouldn't be this outrage.
[/quote]You missed the point like Amelia missed the last island.

You don't know all the facts, I don't know all the facts, the general public desn't know all t he facts, the reporters don't know all the facts, etc., etc. You've decided you know enough to convict Zimmerman, or the Sanford police, or completely exhonerate Trayvon.
Why don't you chill on the vile condemning hate, give the people investigating some time to calmly, intelligently, and rationally gather facts, talk to people, gather evidence, and try to figure out what happened to the best of our limited human capacity. Most of us don't have God speaking in our right ear, we need to find out things with our mental effort.

Do you know for a fact that the Sanford police are all hate mongering racists? Do you know that they are all fools? Could it be possible that Zimmerman did have a broken nose and other wounds and it would have been a wrong for them to arrest Zimmerman without an investication? Maybe they were still investigating but it wasn't fast enough to satisify other peoples jumped-to assumptions.

It is nice and comforting to put all the blame on others and make one person perfectly innocent. It can feed a self-delusion that we are perfectly nice people.

This isn't some school yard scuffle where the dean only punishes whomever through the first punch, made the first mistake. There is plenty of human error to go around. I doubt any of the parties involved, police, Zimmerman, or Martin were gifted with the abilty to be perfect.

Do a little background check on Zimmerman. He was raised Catholic, so he might have the same divine conviction of his self-righteousness and zeal to bring moral correction to the world as you.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' timestamp='1332835149' post='2409058']
Also people keep blaming the media. I agree the media is shady and I'm not a left wing person. Neither am I right. I hate politcs all together and I think its all scum. But in this case if it wasn't for the media we wouldn't know about this case and how bad the police department messed it up. And if you say they didn't it mess it up at all you're not being honest. Go look at the facts. They took Georges word that he had no prior offences. They didn't do research and find out the truth about him assulting an officer and domesitic disputes. They didn't take a drug or alcohol test. They didn't interview Trayvons girlfriend who he was talking to up until the point he was murdered..
[/quote]

But what they DID do was interview an eyewitness who said there was a fight and the gun went off. Again you are assuming that the police did something wrong. You are assuming they are racist and incompetent and the truth is you haven't a clue, because police investigations are NOT matters of public record. So why don't you calm down until its over.

[homeschoolmom]

In spite of what the Law and Order franchise would have us believe, crimes are not investigated and tried in a matter of 42 minutes.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='kujo' timestamp='1332848511' post='2409079']
I've said it all along--there is a story we're being SOLD here. All the character assassinations, all the 5-7 year old pictures we're being shown, all the race-baiting and "outrage" they're showing us...they (the media) are clearly trying to make us believe something. And when was the last time you've trusted them to report accurately, without bias?
[/quote]

[Archaeology cat]

Here's the article I saw this morning: http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2012-03-26/story/authorities-release-new-details-paint-trayvon-martin-aggressor It doesn't sound completely clear cut, and I know I don't have all the facts. All I can do is pray.

[quote] With a single punch, Trayvon Martin decked the Neighborhood Watch volunteer who eventually shot and killed the unarmed 17-year-old, then Trayvon climbed on top of George Zimmerman and slammed his head into the sidewalk several times, leaving him bloody and battered, authorities have revealed to the Orlando Sentinel.

That is the account Zimmerman gave police, and much of it has been corroborated by witnesses, authorities say.
Zimmerman has not spoken publicly about what happened, but that night, Feb. 26, and in later meetings he described and re-enacted for police what he says happened.

Zimmerman told police he shot the teenager in self-defense.
Civil rights leaders and thousands of others have demanded Zimmerman's arrest, calling Trayvon a victim of racial profiling and Zimmerman a vigilante.
Trayvon was an unarmed black teenager who had committed no crime, they say, who was gunned down while walking back from a 7-Eleven with nothing more sinister than a package of Skittles and can of Arizona iced tea.
Supporters have held rallies in Sanford, Miami, New York and Tallahassee, calling the case a tragic miscarriage of injustice.
Activist Al Sharpton headlined a rally in Sanford Thursday that drew an estimated 8,000 people. The Rev. Jesse Jackson yesterday spoke at an Eatonville church, where he called Trayvon a martyr.
Another rally is scheduled for 4 p.m. today in Sanford.
Zimmerman has gone into hiding. A fringe group, the New Black Panthers, have offered a $10,000 reward for his capture.
What authorities say happened
Police have been reluctant to provided details about all their evidence, but this is what they've disclosed to the Sentinel:
Zimmerman was on his way to the grocery store when he spotted Trayvon walking through his gated community.
Trayvon was visiting his father's fiancée, who lived there. He had been suspended from school in Miami after being found with an empty marijuana baggie. Miami schools have a zero-tolerance policy for drug possession.
Zimmerman called police and reported a suspicious person, describing Trayvon as black, acting strangely and perhaps on drugs.
Zimmerman got out of his SUV to follow Trayvon on foot. When a dispatch employee asked Zimmerman if he was following the 17-year-old, Zimmerman said yes. The dispatcher told Zimmerman he did not need to do that.
Listen to the 911 call (edited by the Times-Union)
There is about a one-minute gap during which police say they're not sure what happened.
Zimmerman told them he lost sight of Trayvon and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words.
Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police.
Trayvon then said, "Well, you do now" or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose.
Zimmerman fell to the ground and Trayvon got on top of him and began slamming his head into the sidewalk, he told police.
Zimmerman began yelling for help.
Several witnesses heard those cries, and there's been a dispute about from whom they came: Zimmerman or Trayvon.
Lawyers for Trayvon's family say it was Trayvon, but police say their evidence indicates it was Zimmerman.
One witnesses, who has since talked to local television news reporters, told police he saw Zimmerman on the ground with Trayvon on top, pounding him and was unequivocal that it was Zimmerman who was crying for help.
Zimmerman then shot Trayvon once in the chest from very close range, according to authorities.
When police arrived less than two minutes later, Zimmerman was bleeding from the nose, had a swollen lip and had bloody lacerations to the back of his head.
Paramedics gave him first aid, but he said no to going to the hospital. He got medical care the next day.
The Department of Justice last week opened a civil rights investigation into what happened, and Gov. Rick Scott appointed a special prosecutor.
It's not clear whether the special prosecutor, Angela Corey, the state attorney for Duval, Clay and Nassau counties, will have Zimmerman arrested, announce that there's not enough evidence to file a manslaughter charge or present evidence to a grand jury. [/quote]